Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Oct 7, 2009 6:30:05 GMT -5
Interesting post from another forum...
forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=507952
Belorussian: Somewhat similar to Ukrainian or Russian, but virtually no decent resources available.
Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian: Cyrillic (Serbian only) or Latin alphabet; free stress (but not on last syllable); pitch/tone distinctions; long and short vowels; 6-7 cases (the merging of the dative and locative make it arguable whether there are 7 cases as is traditionally asserted); 2 future tenses, 4 past tenses; vocabulary in Croatian is notoriously puristic and "international" loanwords are not as common as in other Slavic languages. Serbian on the other hand is less puristic and "international" loanwords are more common than in Croatian; a few decent resources available
Bulgarian: Cyrillic alphabet; free stress; all vowels are short; virtually no case inflections (except for pronouns and a few nouns) but many verb tenses and moods; part of the Balkan "Sprachbund" (i.e. definite suffix, no infinitive); certain similarities to Russian vocabulary (probably because of common Eastern Orthodox religion/culture); a few decent resources available
Czech: Latin alphabet; fixed stress; long and short vowels; 7 cases; vocabulary in Czech is quite puristic and "international" loanwords are not as common as in other Slavic languages; some decent resources available
Macedonian: Similar to Bulgarian EXCEPT that standard Macedonian has stress that's fixed on the third-last syllable and even fewer decent resources
Polish: Latin alphabet; fixed stress; all vowels are short; 2 nasal vowels; 7 cases; some decent resources available
Russian: Cyrillic alphabet; free stress; all vowels are short; vowel reduction (i.e. pronunciation of vowels depends on whether they are stressed or unstressed, but stress isn't indicated with diacritical marks in most Russian texts.); 6-8 cases (depending on how you look at it); many decent resources available.
Slovak: Latin alphabet; fixed stress; long and short vowels; 6 cases; a few decent resources available.
Slovenian: Latin alphabet; free stress; pitch/tone/length distinctions; 6 cases; regular use of dual (in addition to singular and plural); vocabulary in Slovenian is quite puristic and "international" loanwords are not as common as in other Slavic languages; certain similarities to Western Slavic languages that aren't shared by other Southern Slavic languages; virtually no decent resources available (Colloquial Slovene and Teach Yourself Slovene are inadequate and much less thorough than courses in the same series for other languages.)
Sorbian: Latin alphabet; fixed stress; all vowels are short; 7 cases; regular use of dual (in addition to singular and plural); no decent resources available (maybe there are some in German, but I haven't seen any in English)
Ukrainian: Somewhat similar to Russian, but seems to have quite a lot of loanwords from Polish, a few decent resources available.
Your choice of language may depend on what you find to be more difficult. Does unpredictable pronunciation cause more problems? Is your weakness in declension? Do you get frustrated by lots of conjugations? The presence of loanwords may also be helpful and some Slavic languages compared to others have stronger puristic tendencies as noted above.
e.g. airplane, car, computer, history, music
Croatian: zrakoplov; auto(mobil); kompjutor/raèunalo; povijest ("historija" is less common); glazba
Czech: letadlo; auto; poèítaè; dìjiny; hudba
Polish: samolot; samochód; komputer; historia; muzyka
Russian: самолет (samolot); автомобиль (avtomobil'); компьютер (kompyuter); история (istoriya); музыка (muzyka)
Serbian: avion (from French); auto(mobil); kompjuter/raèunar; istorija ("povest" is less common); muzika
Slovak: lietadlo; auto; poèítaè; dejiny; hudba
Slovenian: zrakoplov; avtomobil/vozilo; raèunalnik; zgodovina ("historija" is rarely used); glasba
In general, Bulgarian and Macedonian on one end and Russian at the other can represent a type of contrast. Bulgarian and Macedonian have the most tenses, but the fewest cases; Russian has the fewest tenses, but the most cases (if you hold that Russian has 8 cases instead of 6).
Slovenian and Sorbian represent a different sort of difficulty because these languages use the dual regularly, while the other Slavic languages have lost almost all of the dual declensions. Thus in Slovenian or Sorbian, you need to decline or conjugate based on whether the subject or objects come as one, two or more than two.
Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian can be tricky because they use distinctions in tone/pitch/length to distinguish between different cases or conjugations. However, the spelling doesn't indicate such distinctions so you have to learn it "by feel". Athaulf is right in that it can be complicated for foreigners.
You can also consider the amount of resources as someone suggested. Russian's difficulty is alleviated by the fact that there are about 140 million native speakers and lots of good resources for foreigners. Sorbian is on the other extreme in that it has about 50,000 speakers, and the amount of decent resources for foreigners is next to nothing.
In my opinion, here are some suggestions for a learning sequence of Slavic languages.
1) Russian > Bulgarian/Macedonian > Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian > Slovenian > Sorbian > Czech/Slovak > Polish > Ukrainian/Belorussian
2) Czech/Slovak > Polish > Ukrainian/Belorussian > Russian > Bulgarian/Macedonian > Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian > Slovenian > Sorbian
3) Czech/Slovak > Sorbian > Slovenian > Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian > Macedonian/Bulgarian > Russian > Ukrainian/Belorussian > Polish
4) Bulgarian/Macedonian > Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian > Slovenian > Sorbian > Czech/Slovak > Polish > Belorussian/Ukrainian > Russian
5) Russian > Belorussian/Ukrainian > Polish > Czech/Slovak > Sorbian > Slovenian > Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian > Bulgarian/Macedonian
Of course, you can learn these languages in any order, but these suggestions reflect the idea of a continuum (sort of) where moving from one language to the next should be as "smooth" as possible, and you can see that the sequences are variations of each other.
forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=507952
Belorussian: Somewhat similar to Ukrainian or Russian, but virtually no decent resources available.
Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian: Cyrillic (Serbian only) or Latin alphabet; free stress (but not on last syllable); pitch/tone distinctions; long and short vowels; 6-7 cases (the merging of the dative and locative make it arguable whether there are 7 cases as is traditionally asserted); 2 future tenses, 4 past tenses; vocabulary in Croatian is notoriously puristic and "international" loanwords are not as common as in other Slavic languages. Serbian on the other hand is less puristic and "international" loanwords are more common than in Croatian; a few decent resources available
Bulgarian: Cyrillic alphabet; free stress; all vowels are short; virtually no case inflections (except for pronouns and a few nouns) but many verb tenses and moods; part of the Balkan "Sprachbund" (i.e. definite suffix, no infinitive); certain similarities to Russian vocabulary (probably because of common Eastern Orthodox religion/culture); a few decent resources available
Czech: Latin alphabet; fixed stress; long and short vowels; 7 cases; vocabulary in Czech is quite puristic and "international" loanwords are not as common as in other Slavic languages; some decent resources available
Macedonian: Similar to Bulgarian EXCEPT that standard Macedonian has stress that's fixed on the third-last syllable and even fewer decent resources
Polish: Latin alphabet; fixed stress; all vowels are short; 2 nasal vowels; 7 cases; some decent resources available
Russian: Cyrillic alphabet; free stress; all vowels are short; vowel reduction (i.e. pronunciation of vowels depends on whether they are stressed or unstressed, but stress isn't indicated with diacritical marks in most Russian texts.); 6-8 cases (depending on how you look at it); many decent resources available.
Slovak: Latin alphabet; fixed stress; long and short vowels; 6 cases; a few decent resources available.
Slovenian: Latin alphabet; free stress; pitch/tone/length distinctions; 6 cases; regular use of dual (in addition to singular and plural); vocabulary in Slovenian is quite puristic and "international" loanwords are not as common as in other Slavic languages; certain similarities to Western Slavic languages that aren't shared by other Southern Slavic languages; virtually no decent resources available (Colloquial Slovene and Teach Yourself Slovene are inadequate and much less thorough than courses in the same series for other languages.)
Sorbian: Latin alphabet; fixed stress; all vowels are short; 7 cases; regular use of dual (in addition to singular and plural); no decent resources available (maybe there are some in German, but I haven't seen any in English)
Ukrainian: Somewhat similar to Russian, but seems to have quite a lot of loanwords from Polish, a few decent resources available.
Your choice of language may depend on what you find to be more difficult. Does unpredictable pronunciation cause more problems? Is your weakness in declension? Do you get frustrated by lots of conjugations? The presence of loanwords may also be helpful and some Slavic languages compared to others have stronger puristic tendencies as noted above.
e.g. airplane, car, computer, history, music
Croatian: zrakoplov; auto(mobil); kompjutor/raèunalo; povijest ("historija" is less common); glazba
Czech: letadlo; auto; poèítaè; dìjiny; hudba
Polish: samolot; samochód; komputer; historia; muzyka
Russian: самолет (samolot); автомобиль (avtomobil'); компьютер (kompyuter); история (istoriya); музыка (muzyka)
Serbian: avion (from French); auto(mobil); kompjuter/raèunar; istorija ("povest" is less common); muzika
Slovak: lietadlo; auto; poèítaè; dejiny; hudba
Slovenian: zrakoplov; avtomobil/vozilo; raèunalnik; zgodovina ("historija" is rarely used); glasba
In general, Bulgarian and Macedonian on one end and Russian at the other can represent a type of contrast. Bulgarian and Macedonian have the most tenses, but the fewest cases; Russian has the fewest tenses, but the most cases (if you hold that Russian has 8 cases instead of 6).
Slovenian and Sorbian represent a different sort of difficulty because these languages use the dual regularly, while the other Slavic languages have lost almost all of the dual declensions. Thus in Slovenian or Sorbian, you need to decline or conjugate based on whether the subject or objects come as one, two or more than two.
Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian can be tricky because they use distinctions in tone/pitch/length to distinguish between different cases or conjugations. However, the spelling doesn't indicate such distinctions so you have to learn it "by feel". Athaulf is right in that it can be complicated for foreigners.
You can also consider the amount of resources as someone suggested. Russian's difficulty is alleviated by the fact that there are about 140 million native speakers and lots of good resources for foreigners. Sorbian is on the other extreme in that it has about 50,000 speakers, and the amount of decent resources for foreigners is next to nothing.
In my opinion, here are some suggestions for a learning sequence of Slavic languages.
1) Russian > Bulgarian/Macedonian > Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian > Slovenian > Sorbian > Czech/Slovak > Polish > Ukrainian/Belorussian
2) Czech/Slovak > Polish > Ukrainian/Belorussian > Russian > Bulgarian/Macedonian > Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian > Slovenian > Sorbian
3) Czech/Slovak > Sorbian > Slovenian > Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian > Macedonian/Bulgarian > Russian > Ukrainian/Belorussian > Polish
4) Bulgarian/Macedonian > Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian > Slovenian > Sorbian > Czech/Slovak > Polish > Belorussian/Ukrainian > Russian
5) Russian > Belorussian/Ukrainian > Polish > Czech/Slovak > Sorbian > Slovenian > Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian > Bulgarian/Macedonian
Of course, you can learn these languages in any order, but these suggestions reflect the idea of a continuum (sort of) where moving from one language to the next should be as "smooth" as possible, and you can see that the sequences are variations of each other.