Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 16, 2009 23:25:14 GMT -5
Fact is, in southern Albania, the Macedonian minority is today divided between a pro-Bulgarian and pro-Macedonian camp for a reason. And no, there is no pro-Serb camp among them... I wonder why? cause Serbia is not in EU. Ever heard of 1914? Guess what, whole VARDARIA was pro-SERB, i wonder why as well ;D
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Post by macmako on Oct 16, 2009 23:35:48 GMT -5
Demosthenes, nothing personal, just running through with you some historical quiz's. No problem. And I see everyone got the word. Sorry for the extra typing. Five letters was easier, but life is not easy, you know.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 17, 2009 1:22:21 GMT -5
Fact is, in southern Albania, the Macedonian minority is today divided between a pro-Bulgarian and pro-Macedonian camp for a reason. And no, there is no pro-Serb camp among them... I wonder why? cause Serbia is not in EU. Ever heard of 1914? Guess what, whole VARDARIA was pro-SERB, i wonder why as well ;D The Republic of Macedonia or fyrom as un call them are proserb because they are bulgarians that were ruled by serbs for 150 years. they were brought up in macedonism which is based on antibulgarism and antihellenism. Thats why today Macedonians have problems with Bulgaria and Greece. Their history is falsified Bulgarian and Greek history by the Serbs and by the way see howq Macedonian history is not falsifying Serbian history: they dont claim Dushan, Marko, Uglesha etc.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 17, 2009 1:23:23 GMT -5
All I know of him is that he is a Macedonian that considers himself a Bulgarian. Why all the questions, Novi? He is Bulgarian. He explicitly said that he doesnt want to be called Macedonian.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 17, 2009 1:24:54 GMT -5
exarchate, exarchate, exarchate... boy this shkja is truly a broken record... 40 years suddenly decide for hundreds. The world recognises Macedonians as speaking a dialect of Bulgarians. Fact is, in southern Albania, the Macedonian minority is today divided between a pro-Bulgarian and pro-Macedonian camp for a reason. And no, there is no pro-Serb camp among them... I wonder why? great remark toskali, this fact alone proves who the Macedonians are indeed.
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Post by rusebg on Oct 17, 2009 3:50:01 GMT -5
Yep. One of the fundaments of Novi's 'knowlege'. The second one is an unknown German geologists who wrote on the Macedonian dialect. That's been going on for years. Just pray he doesn't decide to explain you the differences among Albanian dialects. He is the ultimate expert in Balkan linguistics although he speaks only English.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 17, 2009 6:15:54 GMT -5
so what Ruse, Ioan have spent half his life here talking about the Republic of Macedonia, when he has never stepped foot into it. You see, we all have our weaknesses PS Have you ever been to the Republic of Macedonia? PS2 according to what i have sensed, the Republic of Macedonia is neither bulgarian nor serbian... as a matter of fact i find Sofia region having to do much more with Serbia than the Republic of Macedonia, but thats my personal feeling.
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Post by macmako on Oct 17, 2009 9:42:16 GMT -5
All I know of him is that he is a Macedonian that considers himself a Bulgarian. Why all the questions, Novi? He is Bulgarian. He explicitly said that he doesnt want to be called Macedonian. He is Macedonian, but has decided that he is Bulgarian. If he feels Bulgarian, that's okay, too. It's called freedom of choice.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 17, 2009 12:55:18 GMT -5
All Macedonians are indeed Bulgarians.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 17, 2009 13:03:57 GMT -5
All Macedonians are indeed Bulgarians. And western bulgarians are Serbians, so by the law of transitivity Macedonians are Serbians ;D
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rex362
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Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
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Post by rex362 on Oct 17, 2009 13:22:00 GMT -5
he was born in the 1890's but fight the urge my friends raki is brewing
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 17, 2009 13:23:46 GMT -5
no eastern serbs are Bulgarians, except that there is RECORDED Bulgarian minority in Serbia whole towns are Bulgarian compared to 0 Serbs in Bulgaria. Except that the so called Torlakians or South Serbs not long time ago were speaking Simple Bulgarian.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 17, 2009 13:46:28 GMT -5
i like Ioan... he never gives up!When he gets serious, nothing stops him! ajde nazdrave bre Jovane! have a shot of Rakija on me!
btw, look how different macedonian is from serbian: (violeta the brunette with the green dress is from Skoplje)
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Post by srbobran on Oct 17, 2009 14:04:55 GMT -5
Prove it. Were you around back then that you know what these people identified themselves as or what language they considered themselves to speak. Didn't think so, now enough with this bullshiit.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 17, 2009 14:09:31 GMT -5
The first known literary monument, influenced by Torlakian dialects is the Manuscript from Temska Monastery from 1762, in which its author, the Monk Kiril Zhivkovich from Pirot, considered his language as: "simple Bulgarian" Felix Philipp Kanitz, (Das Konigreich Serbien und das Serbenvolk von der Romerzeit bis dur Gegenwart, 1904, in two volume) # "In this time (1872) they (the inhabitants of Pirot) did not presume that six years later the often damn Turkish rule in their town will be finished, and at least they did not presume that they will be include in Serbia, because they always feel that they are Bulgarians. ("Ñðáè¼à, çåìšà è ñòàíîâíèøòâî îä ðèìñêîã äîáà äî êðà¼à XIX âåêà", Äðóãà êœèãà, Áåîãðàä 1986, p. 215)...And today (in the end of XIX century) among the older generation there are many fondness to Bulgarians, that it led him to collision with Serbian government. Some hesitation can be noticed among the youngs..." ("Ñðáè¼à, çåìšà è ñòàíîâíèøòâî îä ðèìñêîã äîáà äî êðà¼à XIX âåêà", Äðóãà êœèãà, Áåîãðàä 1986, c. 218; Serbia - its land and inhabitants, Belgrade 1986, p. 218) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torlaks
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 17, 2009 14:12:11 GMT -5
but i do not want to argue on this matter really, its useless today, bulgaria only has claim on the Republic of Macedonia because it has to defend its history. i respect the torlakians who now identify as serbs.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 17, 2009 14:35:02 GMT -5
The first known literary monument, influenced by Torlakian dialects is the Manuscript from Temska Monastery from 1762, in which its author, the Monk Kiril Zhivkovich from Pirot, considered his language as: "simple Bulgarian" when as a traveler i asked a good man in Sofia about a place he answered me "Na kraju, desno". I would describe this language (as a neutral traveller) as OFFICIAL Serbian.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 17, 2009 20:28:01 GMT -5
tell us about the bulgarianised serbs like pejcinovich, vladimir the grammarian and miletich.
Now a linguist called N. van Wijk proved that Torlachki and Shopski are dialects of Serbo-Croat.
Read:
Wijk, N. van. 1956 les langues slaves: De l'unite a la pluralite, pg. 104.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 18, 2009 1:30:16 GMT -5
The first known literary monument, influenced by Torlakian dialects is the Manuscript from Temska Monastery from 1762, in which its author, the Monk Kiril Zhivkovich from Pirot, considered his language as: "simple Bulgarian" when as a traveler i asked a good man in Sofia about a place he answered me "Na kraju, desno". I would describe this language (as a neutral traveller) as OFFICIAL Serbian. you are far from: 1) knowing Bulgarian; 2) knowing Serbian; 3) linguist so I m sorry to break it to you but your oppinion is irrelevant. No one in Sofia would tell you "kraju", its incorrect, everyone says "â êðàÿ" (the correct way) or "íà êðàÿ" no one says "íà êðàþ". You may want to "devide" Bulgaria into Western and Eastern part but I have to warn you: Sofia is not the right place to look for a real "western Bulgarians". Sofia in the begginig of 20 century had 30 000 population, now it has 2 000 000. You know what this means? Bulgarians from everywhere moved there so you ll hardly find any real shop there. You must go to Varna, you ll see that Eastern Bulgaria is even more beautiful than Western. You have to see it before we talk. I know Serbs devide Bulgaria in two because of expansionist ideas but you have to be complete idiot to think Sofia represents Western Bulgaria, it represents the whole of Bulgaria.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 18, 2009 1:39:35 GMT -5
sure Ioan, loads of "official bulgarian" in Sofia (Yakavica, Az, "B",etc..) but the Ekavica was there as well (na kraju DESNO / LEVO)... + a lot of people were using extensively the word "na" (na kraju, etc...) just like the southern Serbs. If Sofia still had 30,000 ppl, i am sure i would communicate with them even better That said, i bet that every Stokavian speaker (even croats/muslims from Bosnia) would have few problems understanding western bulgarian idiom.
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