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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 27, 2009 20:55:19 GMT -5
Its an article from a year ago: Bulgaria Party Wants Macedonia City Back | 28 November 2008 | Ataka Party leader Volen Siderov Ataka Party leader Volen Siderov Sofia _ Bulgaria’s nationalist Ataka party argues Macedonia and Serbia can only become EU members once they return territories taken from Bulgaria after the First World War. Dimitar Stoyanov, a member of the European Parliament for the Ataka party, made the claim in a letter he posted to Serbia’s ambassador to Sofia, after the Belgrade envoy refused to meet him. The Ataka party leader Volen Siderov, later announced that they would demand that Belgrade’s and Skopje’s bid to join the European Union hinges on them returning what Bulgaria refers to the ‘Western Outlands.’ This includes the areas around the towns of Dimitrovgrad and Bosilegrad in eastern Serbia and the town of Strumica in eastern Macedonia. The demand comes as Bulgaria marked the 89th anniversary of the signing of the Treaty of Neuilly which was agreed after the country was defeated in the First World War. The treaty, signed on November 27 1919 at Neuilly-sur-Seine in France, established borders between Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece, and the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes. Under the treaty, Bulgaria ceded its Aegean coastline to Greece, and its western territories, which include the present-day towns of and Strumica, to the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, present-day Serbia and Macedonia. The treaty, known in Bulgaria as the ‘Second National Catastrophe’ was also forced to reduce its army to 20,000 men and pay more than $400 million in reparations. Ataka’s demands come as Bulgaria’s political parties prepare for next year’s general elections. This has seen an upsurge in right-wing rhetoric in recent weeks, with another hardline nationalist party accusing Belgrade of human rights abuses against ethnic Bulgarians in Serbia last week, and tensions with Bulgaria’s substantial ethnic Turk minority rising. Ataka is currently third in opinion polls behind Mayor of Sofia Boris Boyko’s opposition GERB party and Prime Minister Sergey Stanishev’s Socialist Party. Read more: www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/15028/?tpid=146
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Oct 29, 2009 9:20:16 GMT -5
Bulgaria doesn't have territorial claims on the Republic of Macedonia. Strumica is fine where it is.
It's Bosilegrad and Tsaribrod that are in need of help as the Serbian government purposefully doesn't contribute to the development of those regions. The treatment of the Western Outlands in Serbia is quite similar to the treatment of the Balkans in the Ottoman Empire. To Serbia, the Western Outlands are borrowed lands and the Serbian government doesn't feel the need to support the predominantly Bulgarian population there. Realistically, if the Western Outlands are returned to Bulgaria.. both Bulgaria and Serbia will be able to enjoy a future with much improved diplomatic relations, which would possibly help boost the economy of both countries.
And of course, regardless of whether the Western Outlands are under Bulgarian or Serbian control, the Bulgarian government needs to put in quite a bit more resources in support of the populations in Bosilegrad and Tsaribrod.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 29, 2009 18:18:36 GMT -5
"Bulgaria doesn't have territorial claims on the Republic of Macedonia."
Yes they do.
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Post by macmako on Oct 29, 2009 18:32:29 GMT -5
The Treaty is binding, as all others after WWI. Bulgaria even occupied these territories, given up by the treaty, during WWII. It's all right-wing idiocy. All Bulgaria wants are beaches on the Aegean.
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Post by rusebg on Oct 30, 2009 2:30:59 GMT -5
Bulgaria also wants Queensland in Australia and the Grand Canyon in USA. I wonder how you two missed those claims.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Oct 30, 2009 3:04:44 GMT -5
Don't forget Hawaii. Shit dude, how did you forget that?
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Post by rusebg on Oct 30, 2009 3:24:10 GMT -5
May be I wasn't inspired enough Or probably because I am not into surfing...
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 30, 2009 9:00:43 GMT -5
Bulgaria also wants Queensland in Australia and the Grand Canyon in USA. I wonder how you two missed those claims. Well those "two" are not the ones looking to steal foreign land. Ruse, find this "attacka" guy and mail him privately, if you are so concerned.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 30, 2009 17:41:52 GMT -5
^ Exactly pyrro.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Oct 30, 2009 22:23:43 GMT -5
How can Bulgaria have territorial claims on Macedonia? This is the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. Macedonia and Bulgaria were one country, one nation, one people. Therefore, Macedonia has an equal claim on Bulgaria. All that is Macedonian is Bulgarian; all that is Bulgarian is Macedonian.
Unfortunately Macedonia's government is still heavily influenced by the de-Bulgarization agenda of past Serbian governments.
Bulgaria has no problems with the Macedonian nation and the people who live within it; we just want the anti-Bulgarian propaganda politics to halt.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 30, 2009 22:49:09 GMT -5
^ who was the first nation to recognise vardar as a republic, was it serbia?
The only time Bulgaria occupied vardar was during the 1st and 2nd Bulgarian empire. Vardar was always orientated to the people north of them (culturally, religiously, history).
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2009 1:34:45 GMT -5
500 years Bulgarian rule against 30 years Serb rule: you hardly left any trace. Peter I of Bulgaria ruled longed them compared to your (i mean not you, i mean real Serbian) short lived rule.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Oct 31, 2009 2:03:14 GMT -5
Hahhahaha Novi, you are so poorly informed. You got nothing. And no, Serbia wasn't the first.
It was Bulgaria..
Novi, I've told you before, the whole of Serbia has been a Bulgarian province for a hell of a lot longer than Macedonia was a part of Serbia.
Hhahah what an idiot.
Religously!? In this sense you might as well claim Greeks, Romanians, Ukrainians, Russians, and Bulgarians as Serbs.
Historically!? Like Ioan said, you are comparing a Bulgarian claim on history of 500 years to a Serbian claim of 30 years. In this sense all Serbians would be Bulgarians, since your country was rulled by ours for a couple of hundred years. And one of your dynasties has so much Bulgarian blood that it can hardly be called Serbian.
Culturally!? Sure there are similarities, but Bulgaria is just as close to Serbia culturally. I mean, this is fairly obvious, since Bulgarian and Macedonian culture is one and the same.
Oh yeah, and you are not even Serbian.. you are a Torlak. We love Torlaks so relax, stop hatin'.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 31, 2009 3:14:01 GMT -5
O.k boys, l'll get back with a response by tomorrow.
God Bless ya's.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 31, 2009 10:45:40 GMT -5
Novi, i'd say delete the sh1t out of the posts of those morons who doubt about your real serbdom. No need to go over the same things all over again Novi. History, is NOW, TODAY. In Serbian big brother "Veliki Brat" on B92, Pink BiH, people from CrnaGora/Banja Luka communicate with Vardarians just fine... (and oh... yes Vardarians speaking VARDARIAN slavo-makedonski dialect)... Their accent is just a little peculiar.. But then again people from Sofia have different accent as compared with Vardarians...
Novi, nuff said... No need to explain things to a guy (Ioan) who 1) has never been to the Republic of Macedonia 2) questions your own Serbdom 3) seems so iteratively dogmatic, (and boring to death...)
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2009 10:49:29 GMT -5
pyrro chill out and welcome back
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 31, 2009 10:50:11 GMT -5
Asen take it easy man with the 30 years... Epirus was supposed to be under Serb rule for only 30 years as well (or less if i remember correctly) BUT the whole region is FULL of SERBIAN (not croatian/bulgarian) TOPONYMS...
In the end both Serbs and Bulgarians are so similar regarding language. The separation is clearly political (just like with croats/boslims,etc...) Guys, lets stop all please wasting energy on micro-nationalisms, while EU is sucking our blood...
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 31, 2009 10:53:06 GMT -5
pyrro chill out and welcome back Calling Novi (my best Serb man) as non-serb is good eunf of a reason to quit for good. I'd like to quit, but some coward greek-arvanite p**ies wrote ILLITHIOS under my name in profile. Those stupid greeko-arvanites had their chance and they missed it. Now i am gonna be f**king them for a long time, until my Greece becomes Greece again.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Oct 31, 2009 11:28:21 GMT -5
Aside from that 30 years, Serbs have no other presence in the region.
Toponyms are not necessarily a determinant of the population that lives in a particular area.
Nevertheless, let's ask some of our Albanian friends about the Bulgarian toponyms that were intentionally Serbianized. I have to say that the Albanian members on this forum seem to be among the more objective bunch, where as people like Novi push the old anti-Bulgarian propaganda of hatred that Serbia was pushing for quite a while.
There's no need to dance around it, 'Slavo-Makedonski dialect'!? It's a Bulgarian dialect, that's why it's always grouped with Bulgarian and it's grammatical structure is identical to that of Bulgarian.
Bulgarian has several dialects, and Macedonian is just one of them. Too many Serbian words were introduced in Macedonian during the time of Yugoslavia. But Macedonian from the Aegean excludes all these Serbian terms.. and the forced *ski naming convention for that matter.
Pyrro, it’s people like Novi that prevent good relations between Bulgaria and Serbia.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 31, 2009 21:22:33 GMT -5
Pyrro, your right man, l'll be going around in circles. Sources, facts, quotes cannot make them realise.
Again l don't have time today, but l will find some tomorrow. What you been upto Pyrro?
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