Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 15, 2009 11:21:22 GMT -5
Vlahs surely exist in Vlasino Jezero, and Serbs have no problems identifying Vlahs, even grant them minority status. In Serbia everyone knows who he is... no issues there.... Rusini, Hungarians, Slovaks, Gypsies, Vlahs, Ukranians living together without problems for 100s of years... So, in Serbia, it is clear who is who....
If Vlahs can explain everything, then tell me, how come Western Bulgarians: a) Celebrate Slava b) Celebrate Vidovdan (Vidovden) c) Speak Ekavica while eastern dont? Lets note here that the gap between YAkavica and Ekavica are TWO vowels, and that is a huge difference for ADJACENT territories.. Between Ekavica and Jekavica, only only vowel (more natural...)
Can you explain the above with the theories of the Vlahs as well?
PS I explained my logic behind languages in the previous page. Please read it there.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Nov 15, 2009 14:17:57 GMT -5
dear readers, please do not pay any attention to the delusional pyrro. he has set food once in bulgaria in sofia and he thinks he knows "western bulgarians". unfortunately in sofia there live 1/4 of the whole bulgarian populatiopn that migrated from every part of bulgaria. there is no difference between western and eastern bulgarians, the fact that some peaple celebrate svetez doesnt mean they are serbs. Presently there are 0 serbs in Bulgaria, against a Bulgarian minority in eastern Serbia. Also Serbia have ruled the present day Bulgarian lands 0 years while eastern serbia was in Bulgarian hands for most of medievil times. Nish had Bulgarian majority till 19 century.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Nov 15, 2009 16:13:08 GMT -5
Pyro is delusional, his supposed 'evidence' is pure fiction.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 15, 2009 18:08:29 GMT -5
^ What about your pure fiction?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 16, 2009 0:07:25 GMT -5
Haha Novi, it seems we struck a nerve again!
PS While in Sofia, i must admit the majority of the people i spoke too, were talking YAkavica, but i encountered a lot of Ekavica as well. Yakavica is the official after all. However, STILL PEOPLE TALK EKAVICA, WHICH SOUNDS 100% SIMPLE SERBIAN.
PS2 Dear Readers, a) Ioan has confirmed of the presence of the YAT line in Bulgaria (Yakavica vs Ekavica), so my own trip is not prerequisite regarding this issue. b) Ioan accuses me of being only once in Sofia, but the fact that he's NEVER been to FYR Makedonia, never stopped him copying/pasting here his surreal views repetitively..
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Nov 16, 2009 0:19:16 GMT -5
Surreal or supported by every sane linguist and historian? ?? Pyrro you are definition of deluson. You are Greek with Serb selfidentity who tries to serbanize blatantly everything Bulgarian, because u can not distinguish a Bulgarian and a Serb, which is quite understandable since you speak non of the language. Because of that your researches and oppinions can be labeled as science fiction. Yes there is a YAT line, I never denied it. The only difference is that in some words, east of the yat line we say "ya" and west- we say "e". On the other hand the whole grammer is different than serbian, the words are different than serbian. You have to be completely ignorant to overlook the whole grammer and lexic and to try and proove those people are Serbs when history and linguistics are obvious they are not.
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Post by jonleka on Nov 16, 2009 0:27:44 GMT -5
Well what do you expect out of him, its not our fault that he is Greek wimped by a Serbian pussy. The poor Little creature has to work hard to get some.
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Post by Gigolo on Nov 16, 2009 0:41:24 GMT -5
I will say this. Of all the Balkan people, the one that on the surface reminds me most of Serbians, is Bulgarians. Looks and overall vibe wise. And if I'm not mistaken there's been some genetic studies that show these simmilarities on that level too.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 16, 2009 1:12:31 GMT -5
Dear Ioan, the tons of anti-serb articles in the last 20 years, were written by people who could not locate any of those ex-yu republics on the map, let alone, actually be there. I didn't see you or ASEN complaining about it.
My point initially was that the Vlah theory of shejtani was unable to explain the YAKAVICA phenomenon. Also, many Vlahs in eastern Serbia DO NOT SPEAK like Bulgarians or something in between, as Shejtani would suggest ... And the biggest blow of Shejtani's theory is the KRASHOVANI, SOUTHERN SERB Speakers (of Catholic religion) who retained their Torlakian language from 1370 INSIDE VLAH SPEAKING ROMANIA!!!!
After the fall of the Roman empire, i frankly do not see any relevance of the Vlahs any more... Outside Romania, they hardly influenced or ruled anything. I have romanian colleagues at work, and they DO NOT PRONOUNCE WORDS even closely as what Greek vlahs speak... So, normally a vlah, will sound just like as he listens the language around him... he does not dictate the pronounciation or grammar.. Also, lets note that at least in Greece VLAH was never written.. i dont know the case in Bulgaria/Serbia. Thing is Vlahs could not impose grammars or accents. Now Back to Dear Ioan! HEY MAN CALM DOWN!!!! Dont get upset by the truth, even if that hurts!
Now tell me, those "some words" which are pronounced with "E" instead of "JA" (YA), HOW MANY ARE THEY? ONLY SOME??? OR RATHER MANY OF THEM? Or to put it in an other style.
WHICH WORDS are "ekavicized" (or "jakavicized") WHICH IN SERBIA their respective words are not and vice versa?
COULD WE HAVE A QUANTITATIVE feeling here?
I know Jekavica Bosnian Serbs say DESNO, not DIJESNO, they say opet, not opijet, dole not dolije, etc... While eastern Bulgarians at least for DESNO, they say DYASNO, ok???
My intuition says that the differences between EKAVICA Bulgarian and YAKAVICA bulgarian is in MORE words than in Serbian between lets say Nis and Sarajevo (Ekavica/Jekavica).....
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 16, 2009 1:12:59 GMT -5
I will say this. Of all the Balkan people, the one that on the surface reminds me most of Serbians, is Bulgarians. Looks and overall vibe wise. And if I'm not mistaken there's been some genetic studies that show these simmilarities on that level too. I agree, that was my feeling as well, in Sofia. (If by Serbians, we encounter Bosnians Muslims and Stokavian Croats as well, otherwise, the most close nation to Serbians are Bosnians/Croats/FYROMakedonians)
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Post by rusebg on Nov 16, 2009 1:28:36 GMT -5
There was no such thing as Vlah speaking Romania in 1370. First, Romania appeared as a name of the state in 1857. Second, the Romanian language as of today started to form in the middle of the 18th century with many loans from French, Italian and Spanish that replaced the Bulgarian words, that replacing amounting to about 40% of the lexis. Third, the official language of the Church and state administration till the middle of the 18th century again was Bulgarian. Did you know, for instance, that Vlad Tepes (Dracula, if you have heard) wrote his letters in Bulgarian?
Long way to go for you, Pyrro.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Nov 16, 2009 2:13:17 GMT -5
I can not tell you quantatively Pyrro, go and research for yourself. What I know is that when I watch Serbian speaker or speak with him, I understand 70-80 percent or even more from what he says. When I speak with fyromian people I understand 101 percent of what they say. The vlach probably did influence Bulgarian, but the same in a biger percent can be said about Bulgarian influence on Vlach language, as Ruse have very nicely put it above.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 16, 2009 3:06:56 GMT -5
There was no such thing as Vlah speaking Romania in 1370. First, Romania appeared as a name of the state in 1857. Second, the Romanian language as of today started to form in the middle of the 18th century with many loans from French, Italian and Spanish that replaced the Bulgarian words, that replacing amounting to about 40% of the lexis. Third, the official language of the Church and state administration till the middle of the 18th century again was Bulgarian. Did you know, for instance, that Vlad Tepes (Dracula, if you have heard) wrote his letters in Bulgarian? Long way to go for you, Pyrro. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_language#HistoryIt seems to me, that Latin Vlah was the dominant spoken language in Romania, regarding the wikipedia article. The fact that Romanians had many SERBIAN or other Slavic words, was true, and many changes were made post-18th century (mainly by French intervention) to latinize the vocabulary. Thing is that Ruse's view seems to be a blatant delusion of his. (not something unusual amongst Bulgarians in these forums).
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 16, 2009 3:11:06 GMT -5
An indication about Ruse's BS, would be that in Romania, according to en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minorities_of_Romania live about 23,000 SERBS and only 8000 self identifying bulgarians... Those Bulgarians, according to the article live in Banat... now lets analyze Banat...
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 16, 2009 3:15:26 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BanatAs far as the Romanian Banat is concerned, 1660–1666: In 1660–1666, Serbs lived in western (flat) part of the Banat, while Romanians lived in the eastern (mountainous) part.[3] 1743–1753: In 1743–1753, ethnic composition of Banat looked as follows:[4] * Three eastern districts had a Romanian population: Lugoj, Caransebeş and Orşova. * Three western districts had a Serbian population: Veliki Bečkerek, Pančevo and Velika Kikinda. * Six central districts had a mixed Serb-Romanian population: Timişoara, Lipova, Vršac, Nova Palanka, Ciacova and Cenad. 1774: According to 1774 data, the population of the Banat of Temeswar numbered 375,740 people and was composed of:[5] Folk costumes in Banat, around 1860s * 220,000 (58.55%) Romanians * 100,000 (26.61%) Serbs and Greeks * 53,000 (14.11%) Germans * 2,400 (0.64%) Hungarians and Bulgarians * 340 (0.09%) Jews 1900: In 1900, the population of Banat numbered 1,431,329 people, including: [6] * 578,789 (40.4%) Romanians * 362,487 (25.3%) Germans * 251,938 (17.6%) Serbs * 170,124 (11.9%) Hungarians 1910: According to the 1910 census, the population of the Banat region (counties of Torontál, Temes and Krassó-Szörény) numbered 1,582,133 people, including: [7] [8] [9] (*) * 592,049 (37.42%) Romanians * 387,545 (24.50%) Germans * 284,329 (17.97%) Serbs * 242,152 (15.31%) Hungarians So the SLAV influence in Romanian was 100% SERBIAN and not Bulgar. Have a nice day Ruse!! Its almost 10:15 EST, time to wake up!
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 16, 2009 4:01:59 GMT -5
I can not tell you quantatively Pyrro, go and research for yourself. What I know is that when I watch Serbian speaker or speak with him, I understand 70-80 percent or even more from what he says. When I speak with fyromian people I understand 101 percent of what they say. The vlach probably did influence Bulgarian, but the same in a biger percent can be said about Bulgarian influence on Vlach language, as Ruse have very nicely put it above. When somebody else is doing his homework, at some time you will be forced to do that as well sooner or later. Now about you understanding FYROMian: a) YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE b) Serbs/Bosniaks in VELIKI BRAT 2009, DO NOT HAVE THE SLIGHTEST PROBLEM, communicating with Violeta or her sister Kristina from Skoplje. The one who had the biggest problem with those two ...was a fine young SERB footballer named "Manuel Stojanović" from PIROT!!! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veliki_brat_2009
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Nov 16, 2009 5:59:02 GMT -5
Do you know how many fyromians study and live in Sofia? You ll be suprised they are alot. I ve spoken with alot of people from fyrom.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Nov 16, 2009 6:06:28 GMT -5
also when a politican visits bulgaria, there is no subtitles and no translation on national TV because every bulgarian understand this language 100 percent.
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Kralj Vatra
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 16, 2009 6:18:30 GMT -5
More fyromians study in Belgrade. Better univ there ;D and much much much bigger Univ (by four times at least).
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Nov 16, 2009 6:29:23 GMT -5
Doubt it.
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