ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
|
Post by ioan on Nov 17, 2009 5:08:24 GMT -5
Also, i think, this "Torlak" thing was a mechanical enforced intervention by Bulgarian rule and not a natural development. Even the Bulgarians admit that. No we deffinately do not.
|
|
Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
|
Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 17, 2009 7:45:17 GMT -5
Also, i think, this "Torlak" thing was a mechanical enforced intervention by Bulgarian rule and not a natural development. Even the Bulgarians admit that. No we deffinately do not. Who are you to represent all of Bulgaria, 1st, and 2nd, the fact that Bulgarian language lost the case system between 1200 and 1370, is a clear sign that this was an artificial ENFORCED procedure. Man, frankly, slavic languages needed 1000s of years to develop cases, only to waste them in 200 years? This change was 100% artificial, since it happened in such a short interval (less than 200 years), and moreover, since its the *ONLY* slav language without the declension system today. We dont need to deny the obvious.
|
|
|
Post by ILIRI I MADH on Nov 18, 2009 2:10:22 GMT -5
Its the illyrian gene in the purest illyrian blood the albanian malsors the highlanders are the tallest of all...
|
|
|
Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Nov 18, 2009 5:55:05 GMT -5
Its the illyrian gene in the purest illyrian blood the albanian malsors the highlanders are the tallest of all... lol keep dreaming. You're only lying to your self. Even if it's an originally Illyrian trait it's far more common in the south slavs.
|
|
ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
|
Post by ioan on Nov 20, 2009 3:46:04 GMT -5
No we deffinately do not. Who are you to represent all of Bulgaria, 1st, and 2nd, the fact that Bulgarian language lost the case system between 1200 and 1370, is a clear sign that this was an artificial ENFORCED procedure. Man, frankly, slavic languages needed 1000s of years to develop cases, only to waste them in 200 years? This change was 100% artificial, since it happened in such a short interval (less than 200 years), and moreover, since its the *ONLY* slav language without the declension system today. We dont need to deny the obvious. Its because Thracian language (preslavic) had a desicive role on the formation of the Bulgarian language. Only Bulgarian (including its dialect the so called Macedonian) share common features with ALBANIAN and ROMANIAN, and also in a lesser extend GREEK. For more see Balkan linguist union. That fact just prooves that the Thracians played big part in the formation of Bulgarian ethnicity. WHAT YOU THINK is IRRELEVANT since you do not speak Bulgarian NOR Serbian. So shut it.
|
|
Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
|
Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 20, 2009 6:25:01 GMT -5
Greek is supposed to play a major role to the theory of "Balkan linguist union." I have read this silly theory over wikipedia a number of times, and LMAO almost every single one of them. So anything to do with Greeks/Thracians(Greeks) most probably, is beyond you, so do your self a favor and STFU once and for all! And remember this: GRAMMARS can change easily since they are just RULES not PRIMITIVE types in their respective languages. PRONUNCIATION and *BASIC* VOCABULARY change REALLY HARD Thats why Western Bulgarians are Serbs by any means... They sound SERBIAN, they look SERBIAN, they behave SERBIAN... Same holds (at greater or lesser extend) for FYROMians... To be frank, i think Western Bulgarians are more Serbs deep inside than the FYROMAKs...
|
|
ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
|
Post by ioan on Nov 20, 2009 7:22:26 GMT -5
Description This section is from "The Encyclopaedia Britannica". Also available from Amazon: Great Books of the Western World (60 Volumes). The Bulgarian Language The Bulgarian is at once the most ancient and the most modern of the languages which constitute the Slavonic group. In its groundwork it presents the nearest approach to the old ecclesiastical Slavonic, the liturgical language common to all the Orthodox Slavs, but it has undergone more important modifications than any of the sister dialects in the simplification of its grammatical forms; and the analytical character of its development may be compared with that of the neo-Latin and Germanic languages. The introduction of the definite article, which appears in the form of a suffix, and the almost total disappearance of the ancient declensions, for which the use of prepositions has been substituted, distinguish the Bulgarian from all the other members of the Slavonic family. Notwithstanding these changes, which give the language an essentially modern aspect, its close affinity with the ecclesiastical Slavonic, the oldest written dialect, is regarded as established by several eminent scholars, such as Šafařik, Schleicher, Leskien and Brugman, and by many Russian philologists. These authorities agree in describing the liturgical language as "Old Bulgarian." A different view, however, is maintained by Miklosich, Kopitar and some others, who regard it as "Old Slovene." According to the more generally accepted theory, the dialect spoken by the Bulgarian population in the neighbourhood of Salonica, the birthplace of SS. Cyril and Methodius, was employed by the Slavonic apostles in their translations from the Greek, which formed the model for subsequent ecclesiastical literature. This view receives support from the fact that the two nasal vowels of the Church-Slavonic (the greater and lesser Ûs), which have been modified in all the cognate languages except Polish, retain their original pronunciation locally in the neighbourhood of Salonica and Castoria; in modern literary Bulgarian the rhinesmus has disappeared, but the old nasal vowels preserve a peculiar pronunciation, the greater Ûs changing to ŭ, as in English "but," the lesser to ĕ, as in "bet," while in Servian, Russian and Slovene the greater Ûs becomes ū or ō, the lesser e or ya. The remnants of the declensions still existing in Bulgarian (mainly in pronominal and adverbial forms) show a close analogy to those of the old ecclesiastical language. The Slavonic apostles wrote in the 9th century (St Cyril died in 869, St Methodius in 885), but the original manuscripts have not been preserved. The oldest existing copies, which date from the 10th century, already betray the influence of the contemporary vernacular speech, but as the alterations introduced by the copyists are neither constant nor regular, it is possible to reconstruct the original language with tolerable certainty. The "Old Bulgarian," or archaic Slavonic, was an inflexional language of the synthetic type, containing few foreign elements in its vocabulary. The Christian terminology was, of course, mainly Greek; the Latin or German words which occasionally occur were derived from Moravia and Pannonia, where the two saints pursued their missionary labours. In course of time it underwent considerable modifications, both phonetic and structural, in the various Slavonic countries in which it became the liturgical language, and the various MSS. are consequently classified as "Servian-Slavonic," "Croatian-Slavonic," "Russian-Slavonic," etc., according to the different recensions. The "Russian-Slavonic" is the liturgical language now in general use among the Orthodox Slavs of the Balkan Peninsula owing to the great number of ecclesiastical books introduced from Russia in the 17th and 18th centuries; until comparatively recent times it was believed to be the genuine language of the Slavonic apostles. Among the Bulgarians the spoken language of the 9th century underwent important changes during the next three hundred years. The influence of these changes gradually asserts itself in the written language; in the period extending from the 12th to the 15th century the writers still endeavoured to follow the archaic model, but it is evident that the vernacular had already become widely different from the speech of SS. Cyril and Methodius. The language of the MSS. of this period is known as the "Middle Bulgarian"; it stands midway between the old ecclesiastical Slavonic and the modern speech. In the first half of the 16th century the characteristic features of the modern language became apparent in the literary monuments. These features undoubtedly displayed themselves at a much earlier period in the oral speech; but the progress of their development has not yet been completely investigated. Much light may be thrown on this subject by the examination of many hitherto little-known manuscripts and by the scientific study of the folk-songs. In addition to the employment of the article, the loss of the noun-declensions, and the modification of the nasal vowels above alluded to, the disappearance in pronunciation of the final vowels yer-golÊm and yer-malÚk, the loss of the infinitive, and the increased variety of the conjugations, distinguish the modern from the ancient language. The suffix-article, which is derived from the demonstrative pronoun, is a feature peculiar to the Bulgarian among Slavonic and to the Rumanian among Latin languages. This and other points of resemblance between these remotely related members of the Indo-European group are shared by the Albanian, probably the representative of the old Illyrian language, and have consequently been attributed to the influence of the aboriginal speech of the Peninsula. A demonstrative suffix, however, is sometimes found in Russian and Polish, and traces of the article in an embryonic state occur in the "Old Bulgarian" MSS. of the 10th and 11th centuries. In some Bulgarian dialects it assumes different forms according to the proximity or remoteness of the object mentioned. Thus zhena-ta is "the woman"; zhena-va or zhena-sa, "the woman close by"; zhena-na, "the woman yonder." In the borderland between the Servian and Bulgarian nationalities the local use of the article supplies the means of drawing an ethnological frontier; it is nowhere more marked than in the immediate neighbourhood of the Servian population, as, for instance, at Dibra and Prilep. The modern Bulgarian has admitted many foreign elements. It contains about 2000 Turkish and 1000 Greek words dispersed in the various dialects; some Persian and Arabic words have entered through the Turkish medium, and a few Rumanian and Albanian words are found. Most of these are rejected by the purism of the literary language, which, however, has been compelled to borrow the phraseology of modern civilization from the Russian, French and other European languages. The dialects spoken in the kingdom may be classed in two groups - the eastern and the western. The main point of difference is the pronunciation of the letter yedvoÏno, which in the eastern has frequently the sound of ya, in the western invariably that of e in "pet." The literary language began in the western dialect under the twofold influence of Servian literature and the Church Slavonic. In a short time, however, the eastern dialect prevailed, and the influence of Russian literature became predominant. An anti-Russian reaction was initiated by Borgoroff (1818-1892), and has been maintained by numerous writers educated in the German and Austrian universities. Since the foundation of the university of Sofia the literary language has taken a middle course between the ultra-Russian models of the past generation and the dialectic Bulgarian. Little uniformity, however, has yet been attained in regard to diction, orthography or pronunciation. The Bulgarians of pagan times are stated by the monk Khrabr, a contemporary of Tsar Simeon, to have employed a peculiar writing, of which inscriptions recently found near Kaspitchan may possibly be specimens. The earliest manuscripts of the "Old Bulgarian" are written in one or other of the two alphabets known as the glagolitic and Cyrillic (see Slavs). The former was used by Bulgarian writers concurrently with the Cyrillic down to the 12th century. Among the orthodox Slavs the Cyrillic finally superseded the glagolitic; as modified by Peter the Great it became the Russian alphabet, which, with the revival of literature, was introduced into Servia and Bulgaria. Some Russian letters which are superfluous in Bulgarian have been abandoned by the native writers, and a few characters have been restored from the ancient alphabet. chestofbooks.com/reference/Encyclopedia-Britannica-2/The-Bulgarian-Language.html
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Nov 20, 2009 9:11:16 GMT -5
Not major. Greek displays certain features that characterize this union, not all of them.
|
|
Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
|
Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 20, 2009 9:44:16 GMT -5
Point is, how is there supposed to be a union, between languages who inherently do not share anything? However, i see a lot of similarities between Ancient/modern greek words and Serbian, but even much more between Serbian and English (sin,sunce, noz, sestra,brat,gost, the numbers, etc...)
|
|
|
Post by Catcher in the Rye on Nov 20, 2009 14:48:33 GMT -5
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Nov 23, 2009 9:03:12 GMT -5
Point is, how is there supposed to be a union, between languages who inherently do not share anything? You really have a difficult time understanding this, huh? Read here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_contactBasically, just like two un(or distantly)related languages might affect each other's vocabulary (loan words), they can also influence morphology and grammar. This usually happened when a conquoring people subdued another nation and imposed their language upon them. The locals were assimilated, but in some instances, their old speech leaves patterns in a so called substratum. This might be lexcial or grammatical ... how else would you explain the deviant grammar of the Bulgarian language in relation to other Slavic languages? That is smth completely different; you're speaking of Indoeuropean cognates. All IE languages share cognates. For instance the city of Bagdad is related to an old Persian word for God, compare to Slavic Bog. How about the first word which appeas in the Iliad, μῆνιν, meaning rage or wrath ... in Albanian, the word mëri means exactly the same thing. This official word has undergone the process of rhotacism where in our language, 'n' became 'r'. But in the northern dialect, they still say .... mëni !
|
|
ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
|
Post by ioan on Nov 23, 2009 15:45:08 GMT -5
donnie, again great post, thank u.
|
|
|
Post by vanilo on Nov 27, 2009 17:21:23 GMT -5
I'm shorter than the average...
|
|
|
Post by ulf on Mar 4, 2010 19:27:26 GMT -5
heh, i'm taller then average with 191-192 cm
|
|
bato2
Moderator
Art Changed The World
Posts: 1,352
|
Post by bato2 on Mar 31, 2010 6:26:22 GMT -5
Wikipedia...of course very reliable source
|
|
|
Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Mar 31, 2010 6:38:46 GMT -5
I saw this report in an Australian Serbian newspaper & then found it on the web. It says that according to a Swiss Sports institute study in Luzane Serbian football players were found to be both the tallest and heaviest players in Europe. In terms of teams specifically, Serbia's Javor Ivanjica is the tallest team in Europe, followed by Germany's Veder Bremen, Austrias Materburg & Serbia's Partizan is fourth. Tallest averages per league has Serbia first (183.4cm), Denmark second (183.1cm), Germany third (182.9cm), Belgium fourth (182.6cm)... The study considered 36 leagues, 528 clubs and 12,524 players. 83,4 centimetra. Na drugom mestu su Danci (183,1), slede Nemci (182,9) i Belgijanci (182,6). www.mondo.rs/s163379/Fudbal/Srbi_najvisi_i_najtezi_u_Evropi.htmlSrbi najviši i najteži u EvropiSerbs Tallest & Heaviest in Europe6 komentaraOdštampajMake font size smaller Make font size default Make font size larger 13. mart 2010. 11:50 > 11:59 Istraživanja pokazala da u Srbiji igraju najviši i najteži igrači u Evropi. Javor po visini na vodećem mestu, Partizan četvrti. JSL tek na 23. poziciji po kvalitetu, ali najbolja od liga iz bivše SFRJ. Srpski superligaš Javor najviša je fudbalska ekipa u Evropi, to je rezultat demografske studije Internacionalnog centra za sportske studije u Švajcarskoj, Instututa za nauku o sportu u Lozani i Francuskog nacionalnog centra za naučna istraživanja. Ivanjičani zauzimaju prvo mesto sa prosečnom visinom od 186,4 centimetara. Na grugoj poziciji nalazi se Verder iz Bremena. Igrači ovog bundesligaša su prosečno za devet milimetara niži od kolega iz Javora. Austrijski Matresburg (185,2 cm) je treći, a na četvrtom mestu nalazi se srpski šampion Partizana (185,1 cm). Ukupno gledano, Jelen Super liga nalazi se na vodećoj poziciji po visini igrača na Starom kontinentu. Prosečna visina fudbalera koji nastupaju u našem elitnom takmičenju iznosi 183,4 centimetra. Na drugom mestu su Danci (183,1), slede Nemci (182,9) i Belgijanci (182,6). Najniže igrače ima kiparska liga (180,1 cm). Sa 208 centimetara, najviši fudbaler u Evropi je Krištof van Houta, golman Standarada iz Liježa. Najniži je napadač Olimpika iz Marseja, Bakari Kone (163 cm). Srpski klubovi nemaju samo najviše igrače, već i najteže. Prosečna težina igrača iz domaćeg prvenstva iznosi 76,77 kilograma. Najlakši u Evropi su Španci (74,92 kg) Zanimljivo je da su "romantičari" na 13. mestu najmlađih ekipa. Porsečna starost igrača OFK Beograda je 22,77 godina. Najstariji tim je kipraski APOEL sa prosekom od 29,7 godina. Po broju "izvoznika" fudbalera, Srbija se nalazi na četvrtom mestu (201 igrač napustio zemlju 2008). Ubedljivo prvi je Brazil (502), slede Francuska (239) i Argentina (238). Te godine najviše igrača iz Srbije karijeru je nastavilo u Mađarskoj (23), zatim Rumuniji (18), Rusiji (16), Ukrajini (12), Bugarskoj (10)... Čukarički i BSK su na listi klubova bez stranaca, ali su "brđani" na visokoj 17. poziciji najnestabilnijih klubova na Starom kontinentu. Jelen Super liga je po kvalitetu na 23. mestu u Evropi. Ubedljivo vode Englezi, Španci su drugi, dok su treći Italijani. U prvih dest nalaze se još Nemci, Francuzi, Rusi, Ukrajinci, Holanđani, Portugalci i Turci. Od država iz bivše SFRJ, JSL je najbolje kotirana. Hrvatska je na 27. mestu, Slovenija na 31, Bosna i Hercegovina na 35, Makedonija na 41. i Crna Gora na 50. mestu. Najlošiju ligu ima San Marino. Prosečna starost igrača u Evropi je 25,8 godina. Namlađi fudbaleri igraju u Letoniji (prosek 23), a najstariji na Kipru. Golman švedskog Ergritea Bendt Anderson, sa 43 godine je najstariji fudbaler u Evropi. Od aktivnih igrača najviše utakmica u profesinalnoj karijeri odigrao je Graham Aleksan iz Barnlija (778), a Čeh Pavel Verbir (Teplice) nije menjao klub od 1992. godine. U kategoriji "rano sazreli" prvi je Danijel Aleksić, dok je Darko Lazović iz Crvene zvezde četvrti. Ovo istraživanje sprovedeno je u 36 liga pod okriljem UEFA, u obzir su uzeti podaci od 12.524 igrača iz 528 klubova. Rezultate istraživanja preneo je "Sportski žurnal".
|
|
|
Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Mar 31, 2010 6:49:56 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Mar 31, 2010 6:59:09 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by ulf on Apr 8, 2010 11:46:14 GMT -5
Anyone want to bet Serbia will be the tallest team again at this years World Cup? Yes. As far as I saw on transfermarkt site, starting 11 of Serbia for World Cup 2010 qualification was between 188 and 189 cm tall, so they will probably be the tallest
|
|