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Post by oszkarthehun on Nov 17, 2009 23:04:39 GMT -5
then why Ottomans came to Europe and not other way around. Ottomans did same empire building in Middle East it was their nature ...conquering and empire building , so your theory doesnt fly. They didnt come as brothers to Hungary they didnt recognise each other linguistically nor culturally. Earlier Turanic peoples that went into Hungary were not culturaly the same as the Arabised Islamacised cultured Ottomans that appeared in Europe at this time. Actually that mentality in more recent times was mostly voiced by our at the time poorer east european neighbours at least some of them, this was not something that was voiced as much in central or western europe or the west as Hungary was politically and culturally regarded as a central European country prior to Communism. It was more some of the hostile Romanians and maybe Slovaks calling us Mongols more than anyone else and more than any central or West European country. In the end who knows why you hate European people so much but I know most Hungarians certainly dont. unfortunatly in Hungary now and probably since end of communism, I think many Hungarians just look after themselves as individuals not as a nation, I dont see much solidarity besides from some of the ultra nationalist groups who dont seem to have much of a plan for the country either other than targeting gypsies. Hungary is not a secure country ,Hungarians are still in a desperate mood I think, look at Budapest besides tourism I think one of its biggest industries is porn movies, its a shame but I suppose we are a spicy people lol. Anyway best of luck for Hungary the nation of my family background I hope things will improve there.I dont see how a possible change of religion to Islam will do anything to help Hungary, but cant see that happening in any case. . I dont know , but I would be suprised if this was the figure if u have reliable source please show it, anyway the same immigration thing is happening all over the world in big cities especially, probably the same as in Australia and other countries all the small buisiness will go out of Hungarians hands and to other peoples i.e chines and other peoples who are historically good mercantile people, but like the british and Australians Hungarians are not typically good small buisness people other than the Szekely, actually with some exceptions Hungarians are not generally very good buisiness minded people anyway other than Hun Jews and Szekely. Omg here comes Oszkar bacsi the sceptic. No, Europe and Hungary declared a war upon Ottoman because Ottoman invaded Constantinople, Hungary help those poor miserable Europeans against Ottoman who is Hungary's brother. Europeans done nothing good to Hungarians but spit on Hungarian's face and back-stab them. You know "Hungarians are evil Mongols" said by racist European arseholes. And Hungary is not Europe, Hungary is another continent called..."Magyarorszag", when european people put their dirty european foot on Hungary, they are not in Europe but in....HUNGARY!!! A land where people dont speak European but Hungarian. A land of puszta which is the most unique land which is alien to Europe. And yes it's better to see Europeans suffer at the hand of orientals rather than Hungarians suffer. Hungary should grant military access to Ottomans so that Hungary wouldnt be part of Ottoman empire. A real decent Hungarian doesnt give a chit about Europeans but their own people...Hungarians. Actually there's more than just 24,000 hahaha, there's 60,000-70,000 maximum. Hungary will be a muslim country insha-allah, an Islamic Kingdom of Hungary with all the lost hungarian lands to be connected with Hungary again insha-allah. It is written before it's been created. Ur theory is based on stupid Anti-Christ Dajjal who want to wipe Hungary off the map but it wont happen because proud Hungarians will fight against the stupid Anti-Christ Dajjal, Hungarians will always remain a proud Hungarians.
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Nov 19, 2009 22:51:32 GMT -5
it's quite simple, because on the east there was their Mongol muslim brothers in Persia and because brothers dont fight against brothers, which they said at that time, so their best option was to spread Islam to the west. Exactly what one of the Hadith (Sahih-al Bukhari i think) said that muslims will conquer Constantinople in the future, which had already happened said by Prophet Mohammed in his lifetime. And which country in the world wasnt building their empire? point out 1 for me, even Hungary was following this sickening empire building when infact it's more better for Hungary to be neutral like Switzerland. Is that's why Ottoman was using Hungarian names of places in Balkan? Is that's why Ottoman granted Hungarians autonomy in Erdely? Is that why they chose Szapolyai who was a very proud Hungarian as their leader while the rest of Hungarians were licking the Habsburg's arsehole? Habsburg promised alot of things who the didnt deliver but support the miserable Slavs and Olah instead. Is that why Ottoman was so tollerant with Hungarians following Christianity? Because Ottomans didnt come to Hungary as brothers? Ottoman only fought those Hungarians who was in coalition with the Slavs and yes "kocsog huladek cigany" was on ur side against ur brother Turk, the same Cigany who we all hate now and brings terror to Hungary. It will happen, Islam will make Hungary and Hungarians survived, while all her neighbours will face destruction for oppressing Hungarians and also because they are proud enemies of Islam. Oszkar i guarantee u that when ur a Hungarian Muslim, ur more patriotic Hungarian than Christian Hungarians, it's all because u would want to change the Hungarian people to practice virtue instead of vice. And that's exactly what's the problem in Hungary today, people kill each other, fukd each other, the same stupid arabesque mentality among Hungarians. It would take only 1 powerful man who believes in liberation and justice of Hungary to bring Islam, Arabs wouldnt, couldnt and cant discipline a hungarian. If it's hard for a Hungarian to discipline another Hungarian, which chance would the arabs have to discipline Hungarians? their response would be zero!!! This 1 man would take the role like szent Isztvan to established a Hungarian muslim kingdom. That's called "HUNGARIAN (MAGYAR) ISLAMISATION"
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Post by dezboy on Nov 21, 2009 18:41:52 GMT -5
wbb, the ottomans and the habsburgs were both responsible for the destruction of Great Hungary. The ottomans killed and sent into slavery 1/2 of the Magyar population. These are the "brothers" you speak of? When the habsburgs came in they settled foreigners in all the depopulated areas. Hungary is in Europe and even though its surrounded by enemies it has to face the situation its in. No matter how much you want Hungary to be muslim it'll never happen. Hungary's christian whether you like it or not, I think you know it. Forget this Turkey Hungary connection. Most Hungarians are indifferent to Turks or don't like them, thats my impression.
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Dec 2, 2009 5:42:03 GMT -5
That's the typical hungarian mentality u've shown me dezboy. Every Hungarians blame other for the problem but themselves, that's the fact. Like i said before, Ottoman done nothing bad to Hungary except maybe few individual Turks done crimes in Hungary and for that majority of Hungarians spread their exeggeration and blame on majority of Turks for that small incident. It's very surprising that Hungary was still practising their so-called Christianity under Ottomans, the churches are still standing to this day, Jews were treated fairly. I heard 1 story that most Jews in Hungary during Ottomans were Sefardic who were expelled from Al-Andalus and settled in Hungary by the Turks. No harm was done to them either not like this Nyilas Szalasi and his fanatic band of arrowcross roam the streets in Budapest and rampage anyone who is a non-christians into the icey Duna. Maybe it was done by the Habsburg, i heard enough stories of sagnifiecent Austrians who have Hungarian decent and become Germanised probably forced and that half of magyar heritage population is living in todays Austria who are called Austrians. I do not know or heard any Turks who have Magyar heritage that's the problem. im only brother to the one that is brother to me, and most Turks view Magyars as their Turk brothers. Many Turkish love hearing the word...Magyar. Then they say that Magyars are very strong Turks than Turkish, and they mention Attila everytime i meet them. And btw those Turks i know loves me not because im Muslim since many Turks are secular, it's my Magyar ethnicity that they love. I dont know how many Turkish homes i been invited and they say "look we got Magyar here" and many family members get excited for that but if we look at Magyar families they would certainly be racist and mock at islam. I got invited to some magyar family and even some magyars say im not magyar cause of my Islam religion or because of my Palestinian background, that shows that fellow magyars are not giving people a chance to be Magyar, how racist is that. Difference between Turks brothers and Magyar brothers is that majority of Turks love Magyars while majority of Magyars hates Turks. That's something strange. Now u got my answer, u are getting there, keep up the good work. yeah?? lol many Hungarians doesnt even give a rat about christianity, that's why there is a huge percentage of atheist or other religion among Hungarians like me. Unless u are talking about the Magyar Garda who go around village to village erecting a huge Cross which many Hungarian inhabitants actually spit on it or destroy it and Jobbik claims that Gypsies are doing it but really it's the hungarians who are doing it. lol ;D I dont think gypsies would do things like that since they wear a massive gold cross and walk around with it. u are not surprising me at all, u are one of those few self-hating Turks.
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Post by dezboy on Dec 4, 2009 18:42:44 GMT -5
happy holidays wbb from your christian friend and nation, Magyarorszag. Kellemes unnepeket
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Dec 7, 2009 2:15:46 GMT -5
Boldog Karacsony magyar tesztver.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Dec 7, 2009 17:27:41 GMT -5
Actually the 150 year Torok occupation of Hungary put Hungary in the weakened position to be later under the thumb of the Hasburgs empire, and not just Hungary but much of eastern Europe and the Bakans.
I disagree with your oppinion, the Turks took Hungary by force many Hungarian soldiers and civillians died in that time as a result of this. Hungary had to pay Taxes to the Ottomans just to be able to live as Christian Hungarians in their own land.
Hungarian children were stolen from their families either to become forced soldiers for Ottoman empire or w**res in Ottoman harems.
Yes their should be some blame on Hungarians as the wealthy Hungarian nobles instead of investing in military and defence strategies were too busy selfishly spending all their money on themselves and not giving a fk about the country, the Golden Bull had given Hungarian nobles a lot of power like the Lords system in Britain. Hungary at the time would have needed competent military leaders like Hunyadi "the Lion of Hungary"but he was gone by that time.
they had to pay Taxes to do so.
There was no Nazi regime in Eastern Europe in the 16th and 17th Century so your comparison is out of context. Were Jews in Hungary treated badly by Hungarians before Turks invaded Hungary ? Were they treated badly by Hungarians before the 20th century anti semitism in Eastern Europe.
Of course there would be some but more likely Turks will have Serbian, Bosnian,Bulgarian heritage as those countries had much more Jainisseries and Harem girls go to Turkey than did Hungary.
I have met many Turks too and I dont really think Turks make that big deal about Hungarians. Firstly if you are Muslim then of course they will call you brother because for all Muslim any other Muslim is brother or sister doesnt matter what country you came from but most important you are Muslim. Secondly yes I met with some Turks who knew about some Turanic connection with Hungary etc but they dont make sooo big deal about it I didnt see this big deal brotherhood thing you are talking about and also I met with many Turks who didnt know anything about Hungarians or anything about Hungary, except for maybe it wazs one of the European countries they conquered. Thirdly you mention about Turkey being secular but in Turkey Muslim people who live in Turkey or Muslim people who wanna identify themselves as Turks that is eassily done and welcomed by Turks but the Christian or non Muslim people of Turkey were generally not considered to be Turks by Turish society and Turkish leaders. Another example of this type of mentality I remember an Arab guy telling me to be an Arab one must be Muslim.
one question, if Hungarians are Turks why dont they speak Turkish ? go and speak to any Turk in Hungarian and they wont have a clue what you are talking about.
Individually I have nothing against Turks despite what you may think , I have met some very nice Turkish people and had some nice Turkish friends , but I dont tend to share or agree with your interpretation of some modern or historical Turkish brotherhood between Hungarians and Turks, I dont see much historical evidence to support that idea other than some historical Turanic elements and connections/assimilations but I dont see Magyars as historically or presently pusuing a Turkic nationalism or cultural identity on the whole, historically Hungarians attimes had alliances with some Turanic groups but also were enemies and had wars with other Turanic peoples eg ...khazars,Petchenegs,Bulgars, again I believe there definitly were Turanic elements and influences within Hungarian tribes during and pror to the time of the move into the Carpathian Basin, but I also think Hungarians had other ethnic elements too,eg Iranian,Scythic, Uralic, and who knows what else but ultimatly they were not the same as the other pure Turkic tribes who went on in history to be known as Turks and who spoke and still speak Turkic languages, again this was not and is not the case with Hungarians and again their is only 300 odd words of Turkic origin in Hungarian language of which they are considerd to be borrowings, this seems to indicate Hungarians have their own very old historical language that was not and is not Turkic/Turkish.
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Dec 15, 2009 2:05:04 GMT -5
WBB .
Oszkar Do you call them conservative because they didnt become Muslim like you.
if it didnt happen in that way why would history record it in that way, why is the Hungarian collective memory that way, why is Hungarian plays and folk songs and folk stories in that way too.
Hungarians and Ottomans fought several battles against each other, why do you believe Ottomans still regarded Hungarians as brothers or vice versa in that time. I think its your wishful thinking.
WBB
Oszkar Because before that they ruled their own country. Before that they were not a conquered country.
WBB
OSZKAR
lol.
you think that because majority of Hungarians is not Muslims its because of Armenians or Serbs, cmon please get serious WBB.
Serbs nor Armeninas have anything to do with 150 year Torok occupation of Hungary. Hungarians had their own experience as a conquered country they didnt need to hear from someone else what its like.
WBB
OSZKAR Jews were not specifically treated badly in Hungary untill the 20th century anti semitism and especially the Nazi anti semite philosophies.
WBB
OSZKAR it was probably related to the Balkans closer proximity to Anatolia and the fact Ottomans were in Serbia for near 500 years and only in Hungary 150 years.
WBB
OSZKAR Hungarian has never been qualified as a Tukic language. I know there is a few borrowings words of similiarity betweeen the languages but not enough to make Hungarian Turkic.
Hungarian shares word similiarities with other cultures too...
Hungarians and Turks use the kics for small and so do Armenians.
Hungarian "ki" for who is used by Iranians and I think Italians too.
the Hungarian "mi ez" = what is this , Armenians use "inch es" = what is this.
Hungarian is a mysterious languages with possible influences from many places, but can we call it Turkic language just because its agglutinive and has some borrowings -similiar words, hmmm can we call Hungarian Slavic just because it has a number of Slavic borrowings also, I dont think so.
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