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Post by Username on Dec 3, 2009 19:13:49 GMT -5
Hmm.. It is really funny how tito has the nerve to call anyone a Chetnik or Ustasha, when he is the most radical nationalist here..
So tito, why can't you support a federal Bosnia? That doesn't question the legitimacy of the state. A sovereign and legitimate Bosnian state will exist.. and from my understanding, I think more powers do need to be centralized within Sarajevo, but you cannot give everything to Sarajevo. I live in a federal state too, and I would never support the centralization of all power to the national capital here.. it's stupid, cause it's clear that the regions in my country are diverse, with different interests, different economies and general needs. If you are expecting a unitary Bosnia to work... then you are completely delusional.. and you are basically advocating for Bosnia's destruction.
And I don't think there's a single Croat here against the idea of Bosnia.. and certainly not MiG.. There are Serbs here against it, and because of your rambling, hatred and Muslim dominance ideology, you push them further against a Bosnian state. I've told you before that you're doing more harm than good when it comes to keeping people on your side in keeping Bosnia alive. I think you know that too, but your hatred keeps you going and going.
Your ideas are basically: it's the Muslim way or no way. Why would any Croat or Serb be foolish enough to be pulled under a state that views them as second class citizens, and looks after the interests of one ethnic group only?
So seriously, it's about working together; change your way of thinking or you'll be contributing to an independent RS and the dissolution of the Bosnian state. Do you really want that? I don't think you do.
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Post by radovic on Dec 3, 2009 19:29:37 GMT -5
If the court declared their are no "Croat areas", "Bosniak areas", "Serb areas" then what is the point of abolishing the current administrative divisions to create more entities.
It seems like a retarded contradiction. Abolish the current order because it isn't "multi-ethnic" yet the countries highest court says otherwise.
Well given what kind of Bosnia he advocates, shouldn't he be in jail now for going against the consitutional order of the state.
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Post by tito on Dec 3, 2009 20:13:00 GMT -5
So tito, why can't you support a federal Bosnia? I do support even a federal Bosnia as long as it stays multiethnic. It is ethic segregation that I’m against since the constitution says that all citizens of BiH have an equal right to all parts of the country(even if Chetniks and Ustashe don’t like it). I think more powers do need to be centralized within Sarajevo, but you cannot give everything to Sarajevo. I live in a federal state too, and I would never support the centralization of all power to the national capital here.. it's stupid, cause it's clear that the regions in my country are diverse, with different interests, different economies and general needs. I agree with you and so does HDZ, HDZ1990, SDA, SBiH, SDP, NSRZB, BPS and DNZ who all together make up 71,42% of the parliament. Unfortunately we still need those last 3 votes currently controlled by Chetniks in order to adopt the reforms demanded by EU and NATO. Hopefully we will get these last 3 votes in the elections next year. If you are expecting a unitary Bosnia I’m not, no one from the Bosniak or probosnian majority is demanding that. All we ask for is 4-5 multiethnic regions/entities/federal units that wont be based on genocide/ethic cleansing but economic benefits(as EU has proposed) and as much power sharing as possible between all 3 constitutional people in all of these 4-5 regions/entities/federal units. I don’t think this is unreasonable but Chetniks and a few Ustasha fanatics like MiG do. Fortunately these extremists among Croats are not even represented in the parliament. As for the Chetniks they will become softer to negotiate with only when we have those last 3 votes that currently give them control over the RS veto power. Your ideas are basically: it's the Muslim way or no way. Why would any Croat or Serb be foolish enough to be pulled under a state that views them as second class citizens, and looks after the interests of one ethnic group only? So seriously, it's about working together; change your way of thinking or you'll be contributing to an independent RS and the dissolution of the Bosnian state. Do you really want that? I don't think you do. I have explained my ideas above, if the “Muslim way or no way” means a Bosnia without ethic segregation, 3 constitutional people sharing all power in all parts of BiH and integrations with EU and NATO then yes that is what I’m saying. RS independence is not possible anyway especially now that the Brcko Distrikt of Bosnia and Hercegovina has been established so that no help from Serbia can reach the 70% Bosnian Serbs that live west of the district.
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Post by mystery on Dec 3, 2009 20:23:42 GMT -5
biggest mistake by the west was forcing the halt of the croatian-bosnian military offensive , when they were about to take the serb stronghold of banja luka, and all of serb held territory wouldve fell down like a domino effect. this dayton agreement has made BiH an unstable dysfunctional country with a state within a state, and war is most likely to happen again, if the west pulls their peace keepers out of BiH and doesnt intervene when hostilities break out. its the west's fault for making this sham that is the dayton agreement. now the west wants serbs in BiH to voluntarily give up the self rule that they have been given because of dayton, in order to centralise power in the sarajevo government...... fat chance that is going to happen. this is all UK, france & USA's faultevery Muslim in BiH would of got slaughtered if it wasn't for the US.. Blame the Croats and Muslims themselves.. If they weren't idiots in the 1st place by fighting each other and actually were together then maybe there wouldn't be a "RS"
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Dec 3, 2009 21:22:41 GMT -5
If they weren't idiots in the 1st place by fighting each other and actually were together then maybe there wouldn't be a "RS" One of many hypotheticals. The Muslim Croat alliance is completely superficial anyway.
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Post by Username on Dec 3, 2009 21:27:44 GMT -5
Of course Bosnia will stay multiethnic. And I don't think dividing the country by ethnic origin is a good idea either, as it'll just reinforce the current divisions.
But using "Chetniks" and "Ustashe" really doesn't work in your favor either. Like MiG said, they are just concerned about their well being in Bosnia.. that's a completely different thing than radical neo-Nazi ideologies. Their concerns are legitimate, even though politics and brainwashing/propaganda have played a role in developing them.. but that's really not their fault. They think the way they do - not out of hate, but out of concern for their futures. And can you blame them?
Not only that, but by constantly attacking Serbs and Croats on this forum, you are playing right into the hands of politicians like Dodik. There's nothing more that he wants than to increase tensions against Serbs, and to give him a reason to pull RS out of Bosnia.
Work with the "Chetniks".. they obviously have concerns; realize them; have patience, and work on solving them. That's the only way Bosnia will get out of this mess. Bickering will only increase tensions and delay progress.
That's a great idea.
Stop looking at Serbs as your enemies. That makes them more likely to do the same. I don't believe Bosnian Serbs are as anti-Bosnia as people think. I think they are open to the idea of a federal Bosnia so long as their concerns are being met. Like I said before, what Dodik wants is increased drama and tensions.. the smartest thing that Bosniaks and Croats (on the other side of the fence) can do is remain respective, cooperative, and avoid any squabbling.. that's just ammo to corrupt politicians like Dodik.
Try a calmer approach and you may get more people on your side than you think. Your constant Serb/Croat attacks, disrespect, hate and radicalism go over the top way too much and will get you nowhere.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Dec 3, 2009 22:10:42 GMT -5
Stop looking at Serbs as your enemies. That makes them more likely to do the same. I don't believe Bosnian Serbs are as anti-Bosnia as people think. I think they are open to the idea of a federal Bosnia so long as their concerns are being met. Like I said before, what Dodik wants is increased drama and tensions.. the smartest thing that Bosniaks and Croats (on the other side of the fence) can do is remain respective, cooperative, and avoid any squabbling.. that's just ammo to corrupt politicians like Dodik. Try a calmer approach and you may get more people on your side than you think. Your constant Serb/Croat attacks, disrespect, hate and radicalism go over the top way too much and will get you nowhere. lol no we don't. Bosnia is over for us. Tito knows it that's why he must fantasize about Serbs emmigrating and having a low birth rate etc. It's the only thing that will work. He's just being political & hypocritical when he talks about ideas of multi-ethnic Bosnia. On one side he thinks there are ethnic Bosnians & the next minute he'll carry on about Christian kmets. It's bs. It's impossible to have agreement between these people. Tito is an Ottoman/Muslim fanatic any way you look at it. Most Bosnians are not like Tito but even if they aren't Bosnia means nothing to Serbs & it never did. I don't hate Bosniaks. What's theirs is theirs. They can do & think what they want. They can be great neighbours but my dream is to be running around Banja Luka celebrating independence.
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Post by tito on Dec 3, 2009 22:23:53 GMT -5
Like MiG said, they are just concerned about their well being in Bosnia.. that's a completely different thing than radical neo-Nazi ideologies. Their concerns are legitimate, even though politics and brainwashing/propaganda have played a role in developing them.. but that's really not their fault. They think the way they do - not out of hate, but out of concern for their futures. And can you blame them? Yes I can and do blame them, not that it really matters since the few extremists among the Croats who still demand ethic segregation are not even able to gather enough votes to enter the parliament. As for the RS-Serbs they wont change until they loose the last 3 votes(become forced to negotiate as they would be in any other democracy). Not only that, but by constantly attacking Serbs and Croats on this forum, you are playing right into the hands of politicians like Dodik. There's nothing more that he wants than to increase tensions against Serbs, and to give him a reason to pull RS out of Bosnia. The only thing he can pull out is more money, Bosnian territory wont go anywhere, we proved that during the last war. And I hear what you are saying but RS-Serbs have no shame, they wont change until they are forced to. Work with the "Chetniks".. they obviously have concerns; realize them; have patience, and work on solving them. We are working with them, the state institutions are working every day, but no one should expect any positive changes for as long they have the choice to say no. That's the only way Bosnia will get out of this mess. Bickering will only increase tensions and delay progress. There is also the other theory that says that the more we push those Chetnik bastards the faster they will move out to Serbia where they belong so that we can get those 3 votes needed to implement EU:s and NATO:s reforms without wasting time on Chetnik bastards who refuse to support the reforms anyway. Stop looking at Serbs as your enemies. That makes them more likely to do the same. I don't believe Bosnian Serbs are as anti-Bosnia as people think. I think they are open to the idea of a federal Bosnia so long as their concerns are being met. Like I said before, what Dodik wants is increased drama and tensions.. the smartest thing that Bosniaks and Croats (on the other side of the fence) can do is remain respective, cooperative, and avoid any squabbling.. that's just ammo to corrupt politicians like Dodik. Try a calmer approach and you may get more people on your side than you think. Your constant Serb/Croat attacks, disrespect, hate and radicalism go over the top way too much and will get you nowhere. I and all other Bosniaks have tried that, yet no one has ever managed to reason with them. But maybe you are right, Dodik has singed the 4 multiethnic entities deal, time will show what final map we all agree on. Personally I don’t think it will happen until RS-serbs lose those 3 votes in the parliament.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Dec 4, 2009 16:35:53 GMT -5
Bosnia means nothing to Serbs & it never did.
Actually you are wrong here, bosnia did mean alot to serbs "bosnians" during the SFRJ. I know my relatives and alot of other serbs thought well of Bosnia as a region where they come from. But not really the "country".
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Post by tito on Dec 4, 2009 19:02:40 GMT -5
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Post by vinjak on Dec 4, 2009 20:02:51 GMT -5
Hi there...how are you ? A question for you I am confused as it says in the beginning of the report that 3400 or so household were surveyed. Survey covered 3 457 households in 2006, and 3 443 households in 2007 and 2008. The sample did not include collective households (university dormitories, nursing homes, institutes for mentally disabled, orphanages, homes for disabled adults, monasteries, convents, etc.). 11.65% surveyed in 2008 was unresponsive Adjustments to the amount failing to respond was not executed due to the lack of reliable estimates of population per age group or gender
How can that be a population count of RS ? Pardon my ignorance but any help in clearing this up would be great. dkhed.
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Post by Username on Dec 4, 2009 22:14:04 GMT -5
Stop looking at Serbs as your enemies. That makes them more likely to do the same. I don't believe Bosnian Serbs are as anti-Bosnia as people think. I think they are open to the idea of a federal Bosnia so long as their concerns are being met. Like I said before, what Dodik wants is increased drama and tensions.. the smartest thing that Bosniaks and Croats (on the other side of the fence) can do is remain respective, cooperative, and avoid any squabbling.. that's just ammo to corrupt politicians like Dodik. Try a calmer approach and you may get more people on your side than you think. Your constant Serb/Croat attacks, disrespect, hate and radicalism go over the top way too much and will get you nowhere. lol no we don't. Bosnia is over for us. Tito knows it that's why he must fantasize about Serbs emmigrating and having a low birth rate etc. It's the only thing that will work. He's just being political & hypocritical when he talks about ideas of multi-ethnic Bosnia. On one side he thinks there are ethnic Bosnians & the next minute he'll carry on about Christian kmets. It's bs. It's impossible to have agreement between these people. Tito is an Ottoman/Muslim fanatic any way you look at it. Most Bosnians are not like Tito but even if they aren't Bosnia means nothing to Serbs & it never did. I don't hate Bosniaks. What's theirs is theirs. They can do & think what they want. They can be great neighbours but my dream is to be running around Banja Luka celebrating independence. So you say it's impossible to agree with these people, yet acknowledge that most Bosniaks are not like Tito.. and you still refuse to accept that RS is and will always be a part of Bosnia. To me it seems like Serbs in Bosnia are the one's who refuse to cooperate. If Croats and Bosniaks are seeming to work together okay (to some degree), why not Serbs? Luckily, I actually think that the nationalists among us are those living in the diaspora; moreso than who live in Bosnia. So I think there is still hope. And I don't think RS will ever be independent.. if they try to pull something like that, Im pretty sure Bosnia will tumble into war again.. and unlike last time, most of the victims will be Serbs. No one wants that, so how about a little cooperation? I also find it very hypocritical that Serbs on this forum are so anti-Kosovo independence, but keep pushing for Serb independence from Bosnia.. which is it?
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gavrilo
Amicus
Vi ste svi banane
Posts: 840
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Post by gavrilo on Dec 5, 2009 1:19:20 GMT -5
User you ever heard of kosovo? Most serbs saw what happened there and how kosovo received independence with the support of eu/us. So why not the serbs? We have been fcucked six ways to sunday what you expect us to just take our pants off and take it? Nah ill leave that for someone else, not my cup of tea.
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Post by vinjak on Dec 5, 2009 22:37:26 GMT -5
Oi Osmano you gonna answer my question or are you gonna do your usual and slink away like you usually do.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 7, 2009 14:50:18 GMT -5
One thing Im pretty sure about. Besides the ultra extremes like Bob (who want to have cake and eat it too), most Serbs would accept Kosovo as lost if they can be promised RS in turn. Which is why I support the division of Bosnia.
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Post by Username on Dec 7, 2009 18:37:01 GMT -5
One thing Im pretty sure about. Besides the ultra extremes like Bob (who want to have cake and eat it too), most Serbs would accept Kosovo as lost if they can be promised RS in turn. Which is why I support the division of Bosnia. In which case you are an even bigger hypocrite than they are. You're willing to have someone else screwed just for your betterment.. Although I understand that Kosovo and RS are very much tied together, I keep my opinions of them separate. I don't think "to keep Bosnia together, screw Kosovo; they should stay under Serbia's control". But since you think that way, maybe we should all start thinking the same and have both Bosnia and Croatia (having national interests in keeping stability in the Balkans) support Serbia in the Kosovo issue, and in Croatia's case, revoke their recognition of Kosovo? That what you want you hypocrite?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 7, 2009 19:48:05 GMT -5
Albania's king had a saying that I very much love: Atdheu mbi te Gjith! "Fatherland Above All". My interests are squarely with my people and I personally neither deny nor hide the fact that I am a hypocrite in that regard. Personally, I could not care less about Bosnia and if the situation in my territory can be fixed by the destruction of another territory... then... so be it. My people and land above all others.
And how am I a hypocrite? I support self-determination among all peoples. If Serbs want to separate in RS... then I dont see why they should be forced to stay in a nation that clearly is not working out. My view is that people should choose for themselves.
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Post by tito on Dec 7, 2009 19:53:16 GMT -5
One thing Im pretty sure about. Besides the ultra extremes like Bob (who want to have cake and eat it too), most Serbs would accept Kosovo as lost if they can be promised RS in turn. Which is why I support the division of Bosnia. In which case you are an even bigger hypocrite than they are. You're willing to have someone else screwed just for your betterment.. Although I understand that Kosovo and RS are very much tied together, I keep my opinions of them separate. I don't think "to keep Bosnia together, screw Kosovo; they should stay under Serbia's control". But since you think that way, maybe we should all start thinking the same and have both Bosnia and Croatia (having national interests in keeping stability in the Balkans) support Serbia in the Kosovo issue, and in Croatia's case, revoke their recognition of Kosovo? That what you want you hypocrite? It doesn’t matter what he wants, whatever makes Serbia weaker is in the interest of peace in the Balkans and that includes an independent Kosova and even Vojvodina:
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Post by Username on Dec 7, 2009 20:01:00 GMT -5
Albania's king had a saying that I very much love: Atdheu mbi te Gjith! "Fatherland Above All". My interests are squarely with my people and I personally neither deny nor hide the fact that I am a hypocrite in that regard. Personally, I could not care less about Bosnia and if the situation in my territory can be fixed by the destruction of another territory... then... so be it. My people and land above all others. And how am I a hypocrite? I support self-determination among all peoples. If Serbs want to separate in RS... then I dont see why they should be forced to stay in a nation that clearly is not working out. My view is that people should choose for themselves. Lol, and that's why I look down on a lot of people from the Balkans.. you're all crazy, close minded, and selfish nationalists. Brainwashed completely. Pathetic. You don't support self-determination.. you only support it when it comes to gains for Albanians only. There's a sizable Greek minority in Albania.. do you support their self determination?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 7, 2009 21:33:22 GMT -5
They are a minority in the regions they inhabit so their "self-determination" is sort of immoral. And no, based on my interests, even if they were majority I would not support it. My nation above all... so no. But nevertheless, they are small pockets surrounded in an Albanian sea... ready to be extinguished at any moment
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