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Post by leshte on Dec 15, 2009 16:39:57 GMT -5
Ok here is an idiotic claim in the quote. Who the fvck forces you to move to Durres. If they wanna force you to move anywhere they force you to move to Burrel. Or Bence if you know anything about it. Durres at any point in time has been for the civilized. If they want to punish you they force you to move to Vermosh. I have yet to meet one of those punished by Hoxha who was punished and forced to move to Durres. Its like saying he was forced to move to Tirana. Or like sayin Solis (ethnic Greek) was forced into becoming a minister in the Albanian government. Forced to move to Durres. Himara is to Durres like MS-DOS is to Windows 7. He upgraded by moving to Durres. You Greeks certainly have your large share of idiots who'd believe all kinds of bull$hit.
Anyways it is futile arguing the Greeks. They can stay in the line with the FYROM-ians they also claim 60% of Albania is FYROM-ian. So 120% of Albania is either Greek or FYROM-ian. Add to that 50% A-Romanian claim. 2 years ago a Bulgar claimed 40% of Albania was Bulgarian and the Serbs and the Montenegrins have claimed 50% in the past. So stay on the line Greeks. So another 140% of Albania is not Albanians. So what we have so far it has been scientifically proven by Greeks, Montenegrins, Serbs, A-Romanians, FYROM-ians and Bulgars that aproximately 260% of Albania is not Albanian. The rest are Albanian.
OK now speaking on the Geg-Tosk non-issue raised by some bright minds and historical geniuses of this forum I have to say they are right. Being half Tosk and half Geg myself (whatever that means) I fight with my brother every day and also with my family. We never agree on anything because we are half and half. As a matter of time they have killed me several times because being both Gegs and Tosks in this family we hate each other. Added to the Fact that being a mix of Catholic, Orthodox and Muslim we have killed each other several times as well based on that. Let me make it clear for the mentally challenged in this forum. There are plenty of them by the way. What I said above is ironic.
Anyways grow some brains will you.
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Post by bordura on Dec 15, 2009 19:20:34 GMT -5
Super's (admin's) map it might be an eyesore to Serbs and Greeks that claim Albanians showed up late in Balkans. No matter what was the formula that coagulated Albanian nation one thing it is for sure; Albanians where there long long time before any Slavic tribe started showing up in what they call home today.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Dec 15, 2009 19:47:58 GMT -5
Kastorianos .....what do you know of village named "Peple/Pepla "?
up there near Florina or about 10-15 km east of prespa lake area... that use to be my grandmothers home base ...
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Dec 15, 2009 21:25:18 GMT -5
patrinos quote ============ tosks and ghegs ============
I am saying in North Albania the characteristic there live acrid people acrid=gjegs (Ghegs) and in South Albania the characteristic there live sour people (tos=tharte) sour=tos (Tosks)
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Post by monsterofsouli on Dec 16, 2009 0:09:13 GMT -5
^^^ Clown, stop shitting on the threads. Every time I open a thread there you are with your nonsensical incoherent babble.
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 16, 2009 5:46:01 GMT -5
You forgot the population exchanges...tens of thousands of bulgarobardarskis were politely transfered..... ... the majority of them after the Greco-Bulgarian agreement, while about 80.000 Greeks from bulgarian coasts and cities came(not to mention the around 1.5 million Greeks from Minor Asia and Eastern Thrace...), and during the civil war where more than 100 k fyromskis along with Greek commies fled to the communist paradise...
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 16, 2009 5:49:53 GMT -5
btw...where are these toponyms from ? Ajios Andreas Ajnikollë Ajos Vasilios Akra Kalojiros Akra Kefali Akra Stilos Akra Vasi Cacavia Cacodhichi Cape Glossa Capo Hiros Carbunara Catise Mavrojer Chimara Cukala Dhema Dhivrovouni Dhoksati Diavat Drimades Fanari Finiqi Ftera
Gardhikaq Gathaki Gramos Grekani Griva Himara Hlomo Ishulli Tetranisit Janari Kačarat Kalivaki Kalivja Pasha Kallamas Kaludhi Kashtorja Kataro Kepi Panormit Klishari Klisura Kokuli Koqino Lithari Koron Kourouna Kranja Krina Krioneri Ksamil Lagara Mountains Lefterohori Leminoti Livadh Llogara Pass Mai Papathia Maja e Mesimerit Makrikambos Mali i Finiqit Mali i Nikollaqit Mavri Petra Mavrojeri Mavropul Melani Mesovouni Metalla Metoh Metohi Mikropoli Milona Padzomiti Palakastra Palavli Panahor Panaia Panaret Panariti Pandalejmoni Panormo Papadendros Pelagos Perdhikar Perivol Peshkepi Peshkopi Pezuli Pigadhaq Pirgu
Poro Potamia Prokopi Prosilio Protopapa Psilotera Qenurjo Qeparo Qinami Saliar i Desui Sanjdas Sarande Seropulli Sevaster Spilia Theollogo Tremulli Vergo Vllaho-Psillotera Vrioni Vrisere Vromero Vuno etc
they're not slavic...
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 16, 2009 6:55:31 GMT -5
Ha ha ha... OH Snap!
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Dec 16, 2009 7:33:30 GMT -5
Wow, according to this thread, there are no Albanians, we're just an even mixture between Greeks in the south, Serbs in the north and Vlachs evenly scattered to feel up all vacancies. How thoughtful of our neighbours to bring this up to our isolationist minds it must be the most mixed up area in balkans... Greeks, Illyrians, Romans, Albos, lots of Slavs, many many Vlachs, Turk efendis... etc etc... Funny, one Austrian guy said the same thing about you Greeks some time ago ... remember his name?
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Dec 16, 2009 7:44:39 GMT -5
btw...where are these toponyms from ? Ajios Andreas Ajnikollë Ajos Vasilios Akra Kalojiros Akra Kefali Akra Stilos Akra Vasi Cacavia Cacodhichi Cape Glossa Capo Hiros Carbunara Catise Mavrojer Chimara Cukala Dhema Dhivrovouni Dhoksati Diavat Drimades Fanari Finiqi Ftera Gardhikaq Gathaki Gramos Grekani Griva Himara Hlomo Ishulli Tetranisit Janari Kačarat Kalivaki Kalivja Pasha Kallamas Kaludhi Kashtorja Kataro Kepi Panormit Klishari Klisura Kokuli Koqino Lithari Koron Kourouna Kranja Krina Krioneri Ksamil Lagara Mountains Lefterohori Leminoti Livadh Llogara Pass Mai Papathia Maja e Mesimerit Makrikambos Mali i Finiqit Mali i Nikollaqit Mavri Petra Mavrojeri Mavropul Melani Mesovouni Metalla Metoh Metohi Mikropoli Milona Padzomiti Palakastra Palavli Panahor Panaia Panaret Panariti Pandalejmoni Panormo Papadendros Pelagos Perdhikar Perivol Peshkepi Peshkopi Pezuli Pigadhaq Pirgu Poro Potamia Prokopi Prosilio Protopapa Psilotera Qenurjo Qeparo Qinami Saliar i Desui Sanjdas Sarande Seropulli Sevaster Spilia Theollogo Tremulli Vergo Vllaho-Psillotera Vrioni Vrisere Vromero Vuno etc they're not slavic... I dont have the nerve to go through all of them, but they're surely not all Greek. Peshkopi for instance, although the word in itself is a Greek loan word, it is in the Albanian form since it was an early borrowing, and as such it cannot be seen as evidence of a Greek settlement .. especially considering that Peshkopia is in Dibra, in Geg land where no Greeks were ever present. Then there are several others ... I dont see why Kokuli couldnt be Alb, from 'kokë' (head) and the suffix 'uli'. Kashtorja obviously derives from 'kashtë' (hay) ... others, much like Peshkopi, may have Greek roots but were founded by Albanians like Dhoksat (compare to Lazarat, Progonat -- the - at suffix being of old age) .. And so on. With an effort a long list of Slavic and Albanian toponyms could be found in Greece too ... as you know very well. Turkish as well. Point is what do you want to prove ? That the presence of these disprove our continuity doesn't hold as your own example illustrates. And the historical presence of Slavic people hasn't been denied. The presence of toponyms tell us this much. Village names come and go ... names of towns, rivers and mountains are of more value, as they're more perseverant, and leave tracks of phonetic continuity ... and the evolution of such townsnames as Vlore show continuity of the Albanians. If these onomastic results tell us we were temporarely displaced by the marauding Slavs ... and that we eventually took back our lands, surely with some bloodshed ... why not ;D
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 16, 2009 8:16:56 GMT -5
Funny, one Austrian guy said the same thing about you Greeks some time ago ... remember his name? He hadn't included Turks...at least he knew the greco-turkish relations... I agree for toponyms like Peshkopi, it easily could be given by Albos... ...but Kashtoria... ask Kastorianos...
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 16, 2009 10:47:15 GMT -5
Whoever compiled the list... reused toponyms. For instance there is only one Himara, and it is repeated.
Those are small points, patrinos, many of them isolated in the extreme south. The majority being in the Greek minority zone.
Care to explain Preveza? Or Suli? Those are a bit more prominent huh? Or how about we go through some of the old placenames of Attica? Or ur Morea?
One thing I keep wondering, and asking is... what does it say for the Greek community in Albania if most of their placenames are Slavic instead of Greek...
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Post by Kastorianos on Dec 16, 2009 10:54:14 GMT -5
wtf..
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 16, 2009 13:06:52 GMT -5
Whoever compiled the list... reused toponyms. For instance there is only one Himara, and it is repeated. Those are small points, patrinos, many of them isolated in the extreme south. The majority being in the Greek minority zone. Care to explain Preveza? Or Suli? Those are a bit more prominent huh? Or how about we go through some of the old placenames of Attica? Or ur Morea? One thing I keep wondering, and asking is... what does it say for the Greek community in Albania if most of their placenames are Slavic instead of Greek... We know what Preveza and Souli mean... slavic and albanian correspondingly... we don't have problem with admitting it... we have slavic toponyms in Morea but they aren't more than 1/10 of the total number of placenames(cities,towns,villages)... and the vast majority are small mountainous villages...while the vast majority of the medium and big villages, towns, cities(Patra, Korinthos, Argos,Nauplio, Methana, Mantineia, Oitylo, Methoni, Coroni, Assine, Pidaura(Piadha), Lacedaimona(Sparte), etc etc) are Greek(and the previous cities-towns with the same name since antiquity). The arvanitic settlements i can say have half half arvanitika and greek toponyms, and sometimes(not few slavic). You know Greek population was always saved because of its big urban centers and i think the same happened in north Epiros under the slavic and albanian raids... PS.btw have you noticed the names of the "capes" and "akras" up to Avlona?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 16, 2009 13:51:26 GMT -5
Preveza is Albanian, it means "small passage". Greeks in Albania never lived in cities (except for 6th century, but hell, majority of the Greek heartland of the Dropull area is not native, they came in the 18th century to work the farms of Albanian Agas and Beys). In fact there was no cities when Albanian entered in the 13th century... only castles... like Kanina, Gjirokaster, Berat, Butrint... All the cities were in Venetian-Italian hands (like Durres, Vlora). They became cities under the Ottoman Empire and were majority Albanian Muslim populated (Gjirokaster never even had a church or a Greek quarter). Greeks and other Christians generally lived in the countryside and worked their asses off for Muslim Albanian lords. Often getting fuked a few times by them aswell. Only one or two wealthy merchant families lived in the city. The only urban center was Janina, which Albanians were never able to take... since the Greeks there eventually called for Ottoman help. I dunno where u got ur info from... but there is "Akras" in Vlora... I have been around the area a million times and never heard such a term for any mountain area or citadel.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 16, 2009 14:03:33 GMT -5
Now I see why... we dont have "Akras" in Vlora... That seems to be from hellenized toponyms... maybe from Nartjots... either way, we say "Kepi". Even the spelling of many of the toponyms was off.
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 16, 2009 14:31:34 GMT -5
Preveza comes from the slavic prěvozъ-bulg.prěvoz which means pass. The nearby city of Nicopolis was destroyed by the bulgarian Samuel in late 10th cent. and maybe the small settlement of Preveza developed because of it.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Dec 16, 2009 14:54:27 GMT -5
Funny, one Austrian guy said the same thing about you Greeks some time ago ... remember his name? He hadn't included Turks...at least he knew the greco-turkish relations... I agree for toponyms like Peshkopi, it easily could be given by Albos... ...but Kashtoria... ask Kastorianos... Peshkopi is definetely Albanian. It belongs to the old layer of religious borrowings that came from Latin or through Latin, like 'ungjill' from evangelium. And no, Kashtorje/Kashtorja doesnt come from Kastoria, we have the word too for beever ('kastor') and in that case it would've been "Kastori" ... the toponym obviously comes from the word for hay and the suffix 'ore', roughly translating as 'place of hay'. Either way, you're list is pretty pointless and a little inflated as pointed out by Melty .. many of the toponyms not even being authentic and old but probably Northern Epirotic reivionist attempts to proove the region's Greekness. The more I go through the list the dumber it gets .. like "Tremulli", what does it mean in Greek?
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Dec 16, 2009 15:00:41 GMT -5
"Tremulli", what does it mean in Greek?
that's an easy one for us ....oh but I will let Mysia have the honors on this one ....
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 16, 2009 15:07:25 GMT -5
According to by K Komis - 2004
The etymology of the place-name Preveza reveals more about the demographic background of the region. In Albanian, prevëza or prevëzë is a small pass
I dont have access to the rest of the article but he states that the place was a point of transition for albanian tribes in the 12 century.
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