Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jan 9, 2010 7:27:46 GMT -5
Quotes in regards to the genocide, quite enlightening I do think :Here is what Harvard professor William Langer wrote in The Diplomacy of Imperialism, 1890-1902: "Europeans in Turkey were agreed that the immediate aim of the agitators was to incite disorder, bring about inhuman reprisals, and so provoke the intervention of the powers. For that reason, it was said, they operated by preference in areas where the Armenians were a hopeless minority, so that reprisals will be certain. One of the revolutionaries told Dr. Hamlin, the founder of Robert College, that the Hentchak bands would 'watch their opportunity to kill Turks and Koords, set fire to their villages, and then make their escape into the mountains. The enraged Moslems will then rise, and fall upon the defenceless Armenians and slaughter them with such barbarity that Russia will enter in the name of humanity and Christian civilization and take possession'"
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jan 9, 2010 7:33:25 GMT -5
Which Armenian pro genocide website is this quote on? Can somebody point me into the right direction?
What is ARF? Are they a non-violent Armenian advocacy group? Do they have any connections to Armenian terrorism then (1890-1922) and now (1973 to present)?
any civil war, including the American civil war, can be made to look like a genocide if one ignores the other side.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jan 9, 2010 7:36:17 GMT -5
Isn’t the bloody 1915 Van Revolt by the Ottoman-Armenians the equivalent for the Ottoman Empire of September 9, 2001 terrorist attack on America for the United States?
By the Way LOlLI just did a reasearch into how Taner Akcam got his PHD lol, after only 10 years in germany, and given by whom... (his PHD was co - approved by Vahakn Dadrian) hahaha What a joke.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jan 9, 2010 8:17:48 GMT -5
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jan 9, 2010 8:19:39 GMT -5
There is plenty more where that came from... the poor suffering Armenians always 4get to mention these actions in their history
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aayy
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Post by aayy on Jan 12, 2010 13:32:39 GMT -5
The conclusion
The relationship between Turks and Armenians was hostile and Armenians wanted to separate from Turkey
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jan 12, 2010 13:58:17 GMT -5
The conclusion The relationship between Turks and Armenians was hostile and Armenians wanted to separate from Turkey That's no conclusion, that's the background to the problem.
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Post by thracian08 on Jan 12, 2010 14:25:24 GMT -5
Right on DY! Armenians were the ones committing crimes and that's why they don't want to see Ottoman archives. They will be found to be the ones doing the killings.
That's not a conclusion and also that's not the reason why they are hostile. Turks fought against many nations in WWI - British, Greek, French, Italians, Australians, Arabs, Balkan nations, and Arabs. Turks do not hate any of these nations.
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Post by EriTopSheqeri on Jan 12, 2010 18:52:40 GMT -5
I lack knowledge on the Armenian genocide case, but I have seen some maps published by Armenian nationals on another site. If Armenians about a century ago were trying to realize the Armenia displayed on those maps....well, they asked for it.
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aayy
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Post by aayy on Jan 18, 2010 13:15:31 GMT -5
thracian08,
I mean Armenians were alien and hostile to Turkish state in the 19th - the beginning of 20th century and they wanted to separate. It was only the matter of time when something like genocide would happen, given the regional low "war culture" - regional uncivilized traditions of waging wars.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Feb 7, 2010 6:49:24 GMT -5
Pitty then that Turkey does not try to portray Armenians guilty as they are doing it constanly against you. Armenians desperately are creating their lobbying around the World.. Turkey should respond and reveal all evidences taht it wasn't any genocide!
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Post by thracian08 on Feb 8, 2010 19:38:30 GMT -5
yeah Rhezus, Turkey is trying, but our lobby power in the US isn't as strong as Armenians. 2ndly, Turkey is trying to show what occurred, and even asks for Armenia to debate it with Turkey by looking at the Ottoman archives for this information, but Armenians don't want to. I wonder why Because if the Armenians did look at it, it would undermine their agenda, but there was no planned extermination of those people. Mr. Ayy it was a war, there was no planned killings of Armenians. And actually Armenians were the most trusted minority in the Osmanli Empire. Armenians started killing Turkish civilians in the name of getting their own country. There was no army in Eastern Turkey, they came much later on. You can imagine what went on. There are numerous accounts of Armenians killing Turkish civilians - children and the elderly, not men at a fighting age.
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Post by hellboy87 on Feb 9, 2010 12:20:29 GMT -5
Well,they did what they did to get their own country.They have a right to demand for their own country.I dont agree with what they did,but they do deserve their own country and they fought for it since the Ottomans werent giving it to them.
But whatever it is,the Ottomans/Young Turks committed a genocide.Period.
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Post by thracian08 on Feb 9, 2010 13:15:28 GMT -5
NO, they didn't...
They started killing civilians to get their own country. They can't do that.
They should have fought against soldiers...
They did exactly what the Serbs did to the Bosniaks in Srebrenica..
They should rot in helll for what they did.
Armenians committed Genocide - the Dasnaks.
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Post by thracian08 on Feb 9, 2010 13:26:52 GMT -5
" All Turkish children also should be killed as they form a danger to the Armenian nation"
Hamparsum Boyaciyan, nicknamed "Murad," a former Ottoman parliamentarian who led Armenian guerilla forces, ravaging Turkish villages behind the lines, 1914. Cited from Mikael Varandean, "History of the Dashnaktsutiun." (Alternately known as "History of the A.R.Federation" ["H. H. Dashnaktsutyan Patmutiwn," Paris,1932 and Cairo,1950]. The author [1874-1934] has other works, including "L'Arménie et la Question Arménienne," noted in the library as "Delegation propaganda authenticated by the Armenian delegation at the Paris Peace Conference, 1919"])
A. Lalayan, Revolutsionniy Vostok (Revolutionary East) No: 2-3, Moscow, 1936. (Highly deceptive Armenian activists on the Internet are spreading rumors there is no Lalayan. The above quote has been confirmed. Lalaian was an Armenian Soviet historian and the Dashnag report above was first published in issue 2-3 of the magazine, Revolyutsionniy Vostok and then in issue 2 of Istoricheskie Zapisky, the organ of the USSR Academy of Sciences, Institute of History, The above quote is from a proud Dashnag officer, Aslem Varaam, in the report he wrote from the Beyazit-Vaaram region in 1920, Updated translation:: “I exterminated the Turkish population in Bashar-Gechar without making any exceptions. One sometimes feels the bullets shouldn’t be wasted. So, the most effective way against these dogs is to collect the people who have survived the clashes and dump them in deep holes and crush them under heavy rocks pressed from above, not to let them inhabit this world any longer. So I did accordingly. I collected all the women, men and children and extinguished their lives in the deep holes I dumped them into, crushing them with rocks.”)
"This three-day massacre by Armenians is recorded in history as the 'March Events' and thousands of Muslims, old people, women and children lost their lives."
F. Kazemzadeh, The Struggle for Transcaucasia (New York, 1951), p. 69. (This excerpt refers not to Armenian atrocities against Ottoman Turks, but to "Tartar" (derogatory for "Tatar") Turks, when Armenia attacked Azerbaijan in 1918. Regarding this period of March 30 to April 1 1918, Vladimir Lenin said that commissar S. Shaumyan, the chief architect of the massacres throughout Azerbaijan, “turned Baku into an Armenian operated henhouse [slaughterhouse].” According to Justin McCarthy's “Death and Exile," "Between 8,000 and 12,000 Muslims were killed in Baku alone.…”)
"Many massacres were committed by the Armenians until our army arrived in Erzurum... (after General Odesilitze left) 2,127 Muslim bodies were buried in Erzurum's center. These are entirely men. There are ax, bayonet and bullet wounds on the dead bodies. Lungs of the bodies were removed and sharp stakes were struck in the eyes. There are other bodies around the city."
Official telegram of the Third Royal Army Command, addressed to the Supreme Command, March 19, 1918; ATASE Archive of General Staff, Archive No: 4-36-71. D. 231. G.2. K. 2820. Dos.A-69, Fih.3.
"The Armenians did exterminate the entire Muslim population of Russian Armenia as Muslims were considered inferior to the Armenians by the prominent leaders of the Dashnaks."
Mikael Kaprilian, Armenian revolutionary leader, in Yerevan, 1919.
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Post by thracian08 on Feb 9, 2010 13:35:44 GMT -5
more on what Armenians did;
In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists a single Turkish soul."
Sahak Melkonian, Preserving the Armenian Purity, 1920
"Since all the able Moslem men were in the army, it was easy for the Armenians to begin a horrible slaughter of the defenseless Moslem inhabitants in the area. They ... simply cleaned out the Moslem inhabitants in those areas. They performed gruesome deeds, of which I, as an eye witness honestly say that they were much worse than what Turks have been accused of as an Armenian atrocity."
General Bronsart von Schellendorf , "A Witness for Talat Pasha," Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, July 24, 1921
"There are 400.000 Armenians in the Caucasus, who escaped from the Ottoman State."
Hatisov, a later Armenian President, who had joined the Trabzon Conference (14 March-14 April 1918), in a message to Hüseyin Rauf. (Richard Hovannisian later updated this figure to 500,000.) In addition to other non-Ottoman lands many thousands of Armenians had found refuge in (e.g., Iran, Greece), it becomes plain to see all the Armenian men could not have been murdered in one magical stroke, as Armenian propaganda tells us. (Akdes, Nimel Kurat, Turkey and Russia, Ankara, 1990, p.471)
"It is in our blood to hate the Turks. However, we hate Bulgarians and Greeks also. The Jews like Turks, but they hate Arabs. The Arabs, in their turn, are not in favour with the Turks. And the level of hatred is rising."
Narek Mesropian, described as Armenia's poet laureate, in Golos Armenii, a Russian-language newspaper in Armenia, in an August 5, 1997 article reflecting the tension between the Armenian and Jewish communities. Interestingly, the Turks are not accused of hating anybody.
"...In the early part of 1915, therefore, every Turkish city contained thousands of Armenians who had been trained as soldiers and who were supplied with rifles, pistols, and other weapons of defense. The operations at Van once more disclosed that these men could use their weapons to good advantage..."
Henry Morganthau, U.S. Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, Ambassador Morgenthau's Story, Doubleday, Page & Co., Garden City, New York (1918), page 301
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Feb 9, 2010 17:24:40 GMT -5
You don't need to have as stong lobby, just reveal to the World, open all Ottoman archives and give in details all information about what the Armenians actually were doing.
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Post by thracian08 on Feb 9, 2010 19:23:40 GMT -5
We try, but Armenians don't want to look at it.
It takes 2 to tango...
Here are some Turkish series on what occurred:
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Feb 10, 2010 4:17:19 GMT -5
Still you can tell the World. Armenians do not need to look at it, if they find it embarasiing.
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Post by chalkedon on Feb 10, 2010 4:35:14 GMT -5
You don't need to have as stong lobby, just reveal to the World, open all Ottoman archives and give in details all information about what the Armenians actually were doing. Reveal to the world what Rhezus ? They were trying to liberate their lands for Christ's sake... does that mean they deserve to be annihilated ? Anyway...no going back. When and it is a matter of when the genocide gets recognized...We can all get passed this and move on. Its not like Turkey is the only country in the world thats done this. US, Australia, and many other " civilised " countries are just as guilty for similar actions. But due to turkish pride its going to take a while for them to come around...
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