CiKoLa
Amicus
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Post by CiKoLa on Jan 19, 2010 4:09:59 GMT -5
Mesić zaprijetio Dodiku slanjem vojskeDa sam predsjednik Republike u trenutku kada bi Dodik u Republici Srpskoj eventualno raspisao referendum o odcjepljenju od BiH, odmah bih vojskom prekinuo koridor u bosanskoj Posavini, poručio je Mesić."Hrvatska je jamac Dejtonskog sporazuma. Kada bi Dodik referendumom o odcjepljenju srušio Dejtonski sporazum, Republika Srpska odmah bi morala nestati, i zato bih vojno prekinuo koridor", objasnio je novinarima Stjepan Mesić, piše Novi list. "Nevjerojatno je koliko Dodik vara međunarodnu zajednicu. On igra na kartu zamora: misli da će se svijet umoriti od BiH, a on će tada raspisati referendum o odcjepljenju, netko će se nekoliko dana buniti, a onda će sve splasnuti i velika Srbija bit će ostvarena", kazao je Mesić skupini izvjestitelja i komentatora dnevnih novina s kojima je neformalno razgovarao poslije tradicionalnog predsjedničkog prijema za novinare u povodu Božića i Nove godine. I zato bi, kazao je Mesić, kao predsjednik države u slučaju referenduma o odcjepljenju RS od BiH, bio spreman i s Hrvatskom vojskom intervenirati kod Brčkog kako bi RS onesposobio za postojanje."Kako će se ponašati Ivo Josipović, to ćemo vidjeti", dodao je. Upitan je li to svoje mišljenje iznio predstavnicima međunarodne zajednice, Mesić je odgovorio da jest, ali nešto blažim riječima. Koridor o kojemu Mesić govori petnaestak je kilometara širok teritorijalni pojas sjever-jug, koji kod Brčkog povezuje istočni i zapadni dio Republike Srpske. Od hrvatske granice kod Županje udaljen je tridesetak kilometara, piše Novi list. www.domovinskirat.hr/content/view/14866/1543/
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Trazi Vise
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Post by Trazi Vise on Jan 19, 2010 14:12:41 GMT -5
And what is the BiH response to this? After all it is in Bosnia!!!
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tyson
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Post by tyson on Jan 19, 2010 15:04:22 GMT -5
i'm sure the stance of zagreb and sarajevo on this issue is one
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Jan 19, 2010 15:16:55 GMT -5
First off, its a political leverage to "use your military" in any situation. He was bluffing (Politics 101), as he would not have ordered the army onto Banja Luka. That would be an outright stupid move, not to mention being labeled an aggressor.
Secondly, that would be worthless, and pointless for the Republic itself, and the people. Why should we get entangled in a conflict which has no benefit to us, whatsoever. Mesic would be an idiot to do that shit, and it would need to get past the Sabor in order to happen (Which would not happen).
Attack Banja Luka? Is he retarded? Look at the terrain. It's too easy for a Defending Force to dig themselves in, and withstand any attack for a long period of time. Casualties which people do not want, and the public would probably not know about. Not to mention that the amount of debt Croatia would get it would be enormous, and that Brussels would never let us into the EU, and even portray us as instigators.
Did he think this through before he said it? Does he know the results this would yield? If he was serious about involving the Armed Forces, and going that extra step for no gain... Then he was an idiot, and the little respect I had for the man just went down the toilet.
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Post by superstar on Jan 19, 2010 15:20:45 GMT -5
I don't think he said he would attack BL. Just that he would use the HV to cut off the Posavina corridor...
Mesic has always said stupid things though.
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Post by vinjak on Jan 19, 2010 15:38:09 GMT -5
I am guessing that Dodik is jumping up and down with glee over this retarded statement. If there was ever a crack in peoples opinion of Dodik this has cemented it for good.
Well done Dikhead lololol
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Jan 19, 2010 18:06:49 GMT -5
B92 Info Vesti Region Josipović:Slanje vojske nije opcija19. januar 2010. | 22:59 | Izvor: FoNet Zagreb -- Novoizabrani hrvatski predsednik Ivo Josipović kaže, povodom izjava Stjepana Mesića o slanju voske u RS, da njegova opcija nije slanje vojske u susednu zemlju. Novoizabrani hrvatski predsednik Ivo Josipović (Tanjug, arhiva) Komentarišući izjavu odlazećeg predsednika Hrvatske Stjepana Mesića da bi poslao vojsku prema Posavini ako premijer Republike Srpske Milorad Dodik raspiše referendum o otcepljenju od BiH, Josipović je rekao da Mesićev stil karakteriše ležernost u izražavanju. "Slanje Hrvatske vojske u susednu zemlju za mene nije opcija. Ali predsednik Mesić nekad je ležerniji u izražavanju, to je njegov stil. Takve izjave zaista ne želim komentarisati", rekao je Josipović, prenosi SRNA, pozivajući se na hrvatske medije. Josipović je ponovio da su mu bitni dobri odnosi sa susedima, zbog kojih je "spreman odustati od tužbe za genocid za protiv Srbije", dodajući da je "bolje problem rešiti dogovorom, nego se godinama povlačiti po sudu".
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gavrilo
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Vi ste svi banane
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Post by gavrilo on Jan 19, 2010 19:31:19 GMT -5
mig, just curious, but what qualifies as a terrain that would be good for the defense of a city?
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Jan 19, 2010 19:32:12 GMT -5
Finally some one has said it pubically. This is what Dodik can expect from Croatia if he was to even think of a referendum. Croatia is a signatory of the Dayton peace treaty and will do whatever it takes to ensure BiH survives as a state. I think Mesic was wise to threaten such action, Dodik will now think twice. I believe Mesic's aim was to silence him and his Slobodan Milosevic politics in BiH. MiG i disagree with your statement. No benefit of sending the army? Of course we have a benefit, you are just too short sighted to see. It is in our interest that not only BiH survives as a state but also that greater serbia is not achieved. This would have far greater consequences than Croatia's military involvement. Lastly i believe this was one of the reasons Croatia entered NATO. BiH is surrounded by NATO member countries, Croatia being the closest. !!
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Post by EriTopSheqeri on Jan 19, 2010 19:47:31 GMT -5
I am pretty sure Mesic would have sent the army to Bosnia, and so would Josipovic if the Croats there were to be under attack from Serbs. Until then, they would just assist the Bosniaks in return for privileges in benefit of Bosnian Croats.
Josipovic can play the diplomat as much as he wants, he's cut for it, but he can not ignore what Dodik is doing. RS cannot be a state, so RS+Serbia is something any Croat with a brain cell left active would not want.
So, Cikola, what is the general opinion by the Croatian public, anal-ysts, politicians and journalists to Mesic's interview?
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Jan 20, 2010 1:09:43 GMT -5
mig, just curious, but what qualifies as a terrain that would be good for the defense of a city? Dude, mountains/hills. Trenches, Emplacements, Fortification, Garrisoning, and yet with all that you have camouflage of the Forests and the surrounding Mountains. It's not that simple to take Banja Luka as you may think. It's a deathtrap for any kind of force. Why do you think that the United States of America refused to put their troop on the ground during the Kosovo Conflict? Instead they opted to pound FRJ with A2G Ordinance into submission. But other than the physical aspects, there are plenty more involved in taking Banja Luka. Such as monetary abilities, propaganda and willingness, support for and from government, flexibility within the Armed Forces. MiG i disagree with your statement. No benefit of sending the army? Of course we have a benefit, you are just too short sighted to see. It is in our interest that not only BiH survives as a state but also that greater serbia is not achieved. This would have far greater consequences than Croatia's military involvement. Sorry, just couldn't be bothered to respond to the whole post, so I'll only address your comments to myself. Alright. Let's get something straight here. If they decided to do this, it's no cakewalk. Yes, there is NO benefit in sending in the army. Why should our Army suffer physical and psychological casualties for something that will NOT benefit Croatia? Why should the taxpayer and the average Croatian Citizen carry the burden and weight, of yet another blunder by the government. To wage a war isn't simple. It takes the whole nation into action, not just the armed forces. When will you people understand that concept. Mobilization of the Croatian Armed Forces is a massive action. Even if its a small front (Let's say they want to take Posavina, instead of Banja Luka, which would be smarter), its still massive amounts of money, manpower, supplies, logistics that go into this operation. Sustaining the momentum of it (Uncontested Occupation) is even harder. Once a war is won (On Paper, all the battles are finished), you still have to upkeep it, through and through. Obviously the populace (In that general area which is 90%+ Serb) will not welcome you with open arms. This war is way different than the last. The Croatian Army is not numbering in the 110,000+ personnel, but in the 18,200+ Active Professional Military personnel. That is close to an 85% decrease. Economically, in our current state as a Republic and our bills, we cannot sustain such an action. This is what you do not understand. If you want me to draw it out for you, post it, and explain that way, I'd be more than happy to. Just give me some time to do it. Dude Greater Serbia died when Oluja finished. Now its 6 ft. under ground, and like the great Marshal Tito himself, it will not be resurrected. Get over it, the Serbs have larger things to worry about (Kosovo, the Economy, etc.). Short sighted in your opinion or not, if you were leading the nation and had absolute power, our people would always get the short end of the stick.
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Post by vinjak on Jan 20, 2010 2:17:48 GMT -5
Mig in your opinion where would Serbia stand in such a scenario ? surely Serbia would not stand in the sidelines as Croat troops moved in to Bosnia...I understand the whole signatory issue and since Serbia is also a guarantor would it not move against Croat forces as it could be perceived as a threat to Serbia ?
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Jan 20, 2010 2:21:37 GMT -5
Serbia would not act ... because it would risk a direct conflict with NATO.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Jan 20, 2010 2:37:42 GMT -5
Mig in your opinion where would Serbia stand in such a scenario ? surely Serbia would not stand in the sidelines as Croat troops moved in to Bosnia...I understand the whole signatory issue and since Serbia is also a guarantor would it not move against Croat forces as it could be perceived as a threat to Serbia ? I left Serbia out, because due to your governments unwillingness to act on such a thing (if it were EVER to happen, which it wouldn't). Serbia would be between a rock and a hard place. On one hand you have the Kosovo Issue which will definitely come to light as of utmost importance (if it isn't already). The world (Not just the west) would criticize you for your double standards (Wanting Serbia's sovereignty to be respected, but not Bosnia's?). That's how politics works. Not that there wouldn't be masses of probable volunteers from Home and Abroad; but Serbia, as a nation state itself, would not get involved simply due to Kosovo. Because if you do, you are de facto recognizing Kosovar Sovereignty, and giving up on Kosovo (Which at this point doesn't even seem like an option for your Government or People). Not to mention that NATO would have to get involved (Against Serbia again); but probably in a very limited, and defensive role in BiH. Cikola had it partially right in his latest post. Serbia would not act ... because it would risk a direct conflict with NATO. On the note that you might be correct in your current statement, do you have anything to say about what I've said to you?
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Post by vinjak on Jan 20, 2010 2:51:28 GMT -5
Ok thanks for answering bro, in my opinion Dodik is not stupid and the only way that a referendum would be called is if a serious breach of Dayton was forced on RS, in which case legally how could Croatia act ?
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Jan 20, 2010 3:02:49 GMT -5
Croatia could act legally because they are one of the signatories (observer status) within the Dayton Agreement. If you remember, Tudjman signed it, and he was the President of Croatia at the time. I have no idea if it carried on from FRJ to Serbia (Seeing its a successor state), since Milosevic signed it.
In the world's opinion, even if legal grounds are there or not, the UN will support action (As the west would). You could see parallels between Kosovo and Bosnia. Serbs are portrayed as "evildoers", but we all know that politics is politics, and propaganda is propaganda. You're in a double negative, but unlike mathematical rules, two negatives here will not make a positive.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Jan 20, 2010 3:20:43 GMT -5
I understand the whole signatory issue and since Serbia is also a guarantor would it not move against Croat force
It is the duty of guarantor's to ensure BiH is kept alive. That is the whole point in Croatia's military intervention.
Your statement was a little contradictory. On one hand you state serbia is a guarantor then on the other you ask the question whether serbia would act against Croatian troops. For what purpose ? To keep Croatian troops from ensuring BiH stays alive or to ensure RS succeeds in its plans to seperate?
do you have anything to say about what I've said to you?
I think we'll have to agree to disagree here.
Serbia would be between a rock and a hard place.
Amen to that Brother ...!
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Fender
Commanding Moderator
Hardarse
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Post by Fender on Jan 20, 2010 10:26:19 GMT -5
Its pure and simple that Mesic is becoming unhinged. Its also obvious that his pro HDZ bias is showing again when it suits him. He is a menace to the stability of the whole region and good riddance to a totally rotten character in every way.
People, remember he is no longer the president elect, thus making him and his views irrelevant in everyway.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Jan 20, 2010 14:55:21 GMT -5
He might be a former president, but he is the longest standing one at a decade of service. Also, as an elite politician, he still has some sway toward public opinion. He was the last Yugoslav President as well, so that alone (Being President of two nations), is a big deal.
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Post by vinjak on Jan 20, 2010 15:51:34 GMT -5
For what purpose ? To keep Croatian troops from ensuring BiH stays alive or to ensure RS succeeds in its plans to seperate?
To protect The Bosnian Serbs from Croat and Muslim troops.
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