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Post by zgembo on Oct 15, 2007 1:24:50 GMT -5
During the II war Bosnia and it's close neighbours were trying to defend itself from 1. it's internal Serbs and it's Serbian neighbour and 2. the Allies. To say that Bosnia achieved it's freedom through expelling Serbs or trying to is a ridiculous statement. The most ridiculous statement on this thread is what you just wrote.
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Post by zgembo on Oct 15, 2007 1:34:21 GMT -5
"During the II war Bosnia and it's close neighbours were trying to defend itself from 1. it's internal Serbs and it's Serbian neighbour and 2. the Allies. To say that Bosnia achieved it's freedom through expelling Serbs or trying to is a ridiculous statement." 1. There were no Allies in Bosnia 2. The Partisans fought the Axis 3. The Chetniks fought the Partisans 4. The Ustashe fought the Partisans and rarely Chetniks 5. The Green Brigades fought everybody The Chetniks fought JUST the Partisan... but the Green Brigades fought EVERYBODY? E jebiga sad, znam da boli, ali stisni muda i pokusaj biti objektivan za promjenu.
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Trazi Vise
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Post by Trazi Vise on Oct 15, 2007 4:00:29 GMT -5
mapko can you please explain ?
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Demonel
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Post by Demonel on Oct 15, 2007 5:29:49 GMT -5
Zeleni su bili milicija, koja je branila svoja sela od bilo koga ko bi pokusao da ude u selo ukljucujucu tu i Partizane. Protiv koga su se to Cetnici jos borili? Saradivali sa Svabama, saradivali sa Ustashama, saradivali sa Talijanima. Ko je to jos ostao? Zar niste sami tvrdili na Srbija forumu da su najveci neprijatelji Cetnika bili Partizani?
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Post by serbguerrilla on Oct 15, 2007 7:27:13 GMT -5
Zeleni su bili milicija, koja je branila svoja sela od bilo koga ko bi pokusao da ude u selo ukljucujucu tu i Partizane. Protiv koga su se to Cetnici jos borili? Saradivali sa Svabama, saradivali sa Ustashama, saradivali sa Talijanima. Ko je to jos ostao? Zar niste sami tvrdili na Srbija forumu da su najveci neprijatelji Cetnika bili Partizani? 1941 Serbia- Chetniks fought against Germans. Bosnia- Chetniks fought against Germans and Italians. (stops fighting Italians next year) Croatia- Chetniks fought against Germans and Ustasha. 1942 Serbia- Chetniks fought against Germans and Nedic. Bosnia- Chetniks fought against Germans. Croatia- Chetniks fought against Germans and Ustasha. 1943 Serbia- Chetniks fought against Germans, Partisans and Nedic. (Chetniks capture and kill Nedic next year) Bosnia- Chetniks fought against Germans and Ustasha. Croatia- Chetniks fought against Germans and Ustasha. 1944 Serbia- Chetniks fought against Germans and Partisans. (next year the Germans leave) Bosnia- Chetniks fought against Germans, Ustasha and Partisans. (next year the Ustasha dissolve and the Germans leave) Croatia- Chetniks fought against Germans and Ustasha. (next year the Ustasha dissolve and the Germans leave) 1945 Serbia- Chetniks fought against Partisans. Bosnia- Chetniks fought against Partisans. Croatia- Chetniks fought against Partisans. This is very general, obviously there were many more sides including Hungarian, Romanian and Bulgarian forces plus about 20 smaller non-Chetnik, non-Partisan resistance groups. There were also local collaborators.
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Post by zgembo on Oct 15, 2007 14:24:18 GMT -5
SG summarizes it quite well. If there was any side who collaborated and fought everybody at one point (except for the Western Allies) it is the Chetniks. You can chalk that up to poor leadership. If you're going to pinpoint one group they fought it might as well be the Germans. Chetniks were started up in WW2 to fight the Germans, not the Partisans.
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Post by zgembo on Oct 15, 2007 14:29:24 GMT -5
Actually, SG makes a few mistakes I can spot easily. The Battle of Neretva (Bosnia) was in 1943, and there the Chetniks fought the Partisans. There is also the Battle of Lijevca (also Bosnia) in 1945 where the Chetniks fought the Ustasha.
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Post by srbobran on Oct 15, 2007 15:00:19 GMT -5
I agree with Mapko and SerbGeurilla. The Chetniks were formed to defend Yugoslav interests against hostile enemies (be it communism or Axis collaborators). Also, the chetniks were extremely factionalized with groups that called themselves Chentiks but not actually responding to the command of Draza Mihajlovic being commonplace. For example, the 4000 "chetniks" of Kosta Pecanac were integrated into the Serbian Volunteer Corps.
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Post by serbguerrilla on Oct 15, 2007 19:19:34 GMT -5
There were 3 main Chetnik groups. Those under Draza who had his command in Western Serbia and Eastern Bosnia. Those under Dujic who had the rest of Serbia, parts of Montenegro and Macedonia. Those under Nedic who used the name Chetnik for propaganda purposes. Plus there were probably hundreds of smaller local groups that didn’t take orders from any of the above.
Very complex war.
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Trazi Vise
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Post by Trazi Vise on Oct 15, 2007 20:07:04 GMT -5
So SerbGuerrilla, who will be the first nation to recognise RS? Do you want to make a bet on that; I'm willing to play the game
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Post by serbguerrilla on Oct 15, 2007 22:30:38 GMT -5
So SerbGuerrilla, who will be the first nation to recognise RS? Do you want to make a bet on that; I'm willing to play the game If Kosovo declares independence then it will be Serbia followed/backed by Russia.
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Trazi Vise
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Post by Trazi Vise on Oct 15, 2007 23:44:13 GMT -5
^^^Do you honestly believe this ? Loose Kosovo and then gain RS as a recognised country?
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Post by serbguerrilla on Oct 16, 2007 0:12:40 GMT -5
^^^Do you honestly believe this ? Loose Kosovo and then gain RS as a recognised country? Dodik has already expressed that he will hold a referendum if Kosovo gets independence. If Kosovo does gain independence then even moderate politicians in Serbia (Tadic and Kostunica) will become radicals (or behave like radicals so they do not appear to be traitors in the eyes of the Serbian people). If America defies Russia and declares Kosovo independent then Russia will defy America and support RS independence. Kosovo is a Pandora’s Box waiting to happen, all this secession will not doubt result in war and that is why most reasonable people are against it. I do not believe that the majority of the international community would be so careless to support either Kosovo or RS independence.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 16, 2007 2:03:07 GMT -5
The issue is how to eventually gain both KiM and RS and intergrate with Serbia. And this can come true only thru a flourishing and strong Serbian economy, followed by the right political decisions.
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Demonel
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Post by Demonel on Oct 16, 2007 3:25:58 GMT -5
That is our problem; we don't care about Chetniks in Serbia, Macedonia etc. All the killings of my people by Chetniks were done in East Bosnia. Those are the Chetniks that collaborated with Italians and latter with Germans, some of them latter died at Bleiburg with their Ustasha buddies.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 16, 2007 3:36:19 GMT -5
Yeah right, while the innocent Bosniak muslims were advocating communism and panslavism.
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Demonel
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Post by Demonel on Oct 16, 2007 3:45:44 GMT -5
I never said that, did I? We had plenty of our rotten apples. We had collaborators with every side. We had our Ustashe, we had our SS, even our Chetniks but that is not the topic here is it?
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Trazi Vise
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Post by Trazi Vise on Oct 16, 2007 5:06:36 GMT -5
I agree and that's why I feel as though neither will gain independance; however I do feel there is a chance for Kosovo. We will have to wait and see.
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Post by zgembo on Oct 16, 2007 10:08:56 GMT -5
That is our problem; we don't care about Chetniks in Serbia, Macedonia etc. All the killings of my people by Chetniks were done in East Bosnia. Those are the Chetniks that collaborated with Italians and latter with Germans, some of them latter died at Bleiburg with their Ustasha buddies. The ones who died at Bleiburg were the 5,000 Montenegrin Chetniks who deserted the Chetniks during the Battle of Lijevca (going over to the Ustasha side). They were traitors and deserved their fate at Bleiburg. I'm not denying that there were Chetniks who collaborated with Italians and Germans and committed massacres against Bosniaks. However, Chetniks also collaborate with the Partizans in setting up the Uzicka Republika and fought Germans.
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Post by serbguerrilla on Oct 16, 2007 22:14:29 GMT -5
I never said that, did I? We had plenty of our rotten apples. We had collaborators with every side. We had our Ustashe, we had our SS, even our Chetniks but that is not the topic here is it? You have to understand that the ‘Chetniks’ that did commit crimes were not doing so under Draza (who was a pro-Yugoslav), Dujic (who was in Serbia) or Nedic (who had an army not fit enough to guard what remained of Serbia). There is no evidence to support Chetnik collaboration other then Partisan photos of Chetniks which had Nazis and Ustasha added by editors to make it looks like they were collaborators.
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