|
Post by Vizier of Oz on Mar 4, 2010 8:16:41 GMT -5
Greece should sell islands to keep bankruptcy at bay, say German MPsguardian.co.uk, Thursday 4 March 2010 Josef Schlarmann told Bild newspaper that Greece should consider selling its uninhabited islands for debt redemption. Photograph: Third Eye Images/Corbis Greece must consider a firesale of land, historic buildings and artworks to cut its debts, two right-wing German politicians said today in a newspaper interview that is bound to exacerbate tensions between Athens and Berlin. Alongside austerity measures such as cuts to public sector pay and a freeze on state pensions, why not sell a few uninhabited islands or ancient artefacts, asked Josef Schlarmann, a senior member of Angela Merkel's Christian Democrats, and Frank Schaeffler, a finance policy expert in the Free Democrats. The Acropolis and the Parthenon could also fall under the hammer along with temptingly idyllic Aegean islands still under state ownership in a rush to keep bankruptcy at bay. "Those in insolvency have to sell everything they have to pay their creditors," Schlarmann told Bild newspaper. "Greece owns buildings, companies and uninhabited islands, which could all be used for debt redemption." Only yesterday the ruling socialist government in Greece published its third attempt at reducing the country's debts and pleasing EU governments, which have pledged to support the beleaguered Greek economy if measures to cut debts are enacted. Strikes and street protests have already threatened to bring many industries and public services to a standstill if the cuts go ahead. But Germans remain unmoved by the troubles facing Greece. Opinion polls show Germans are overwhelmingly against a Berlin-funded bailout. Greece's deficit was 12.7% of national income in 2009, well ahead of the EU's 3% limit. Merkel will meet the Greek prime minister, George Papandreou, in Berlin on Friday. "The chancellor cannot promise Greece any help," Schaeffler told Bild in a story under the headline: "Sell your islands, you bankrupt Greeks! And sell the Acropolis too!" "The Greek government has to take radical steps to sell its property – for example its uninhabited islands," Schaeffler told Germany's best-selling daily newspaper. Greece's deputy foreign minister, Dimitris Droutsas, was asked about the idea in an interview with ARD TV. "I've also heard the suggestion we should sell the Acropolis," Droutsas said. "Suggestions like this are not appropriate at this time." Germans have had an allergic reaction to reports their country may be part of a bailout for Greece. Many fear that a bailout of Greece could lead to similar calls for cash from Spain and Portugal, which have also suffered severe recessions following the financial crash. Europe's biggest economy itself is only just creeping out of its worst post-war recession. Last week figures revealed the German economy had stalled, while separately, politicians wrestled with a bigger bailout for its second largest bank, Commerzbank, which purchased billions of pounds worth of exotic financial instruments linked to US subprime mortgages. www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/04/greece-sell-islands-german-mps
|
|
|
Post by ngadhnjyesi on Mar 4, 2010 9:52:48 GMT -5
...or they can just default on their debt. The Germans are becoming increasinly annoying. If they don't like bailing out Greeks or other Europeans for that matter let them go back to the Detuch Mark and stop bothering the rest of Eruope. Germany has benefitted greatly from the Euro while others like Italy and Greece have sufffered immensely so it's time for the Germans to STFU.
|
|
|
Post by danceswithpoodles on Mar 4, 2010 10:13:07 GMT -5
HA! Now I find that very insulting, selling your own country. NOW NOW Greeks have the right to degrade the Germans. Making a stupid suggestion like that is a slap in the face.
Ngad, another exalt for you! ;D I agree!
|
|
Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
|
Post by Patrinos on Mar 4, 2010 10:55:54 GMT -5
;D
Germans, as ngadhi correctly said( ;D), are the most benefited from the Eurozone. They may don't have received directly any ammount like southern EU countries did, but the ammount of extra billions that enter in Germany due to the common currency and the beneficial terms that german products are sold, is huge in contrast to the total 16 billion euros that had entered Greece the last 30 years...
|
|
PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
|
Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Mar 4, 2010 11:04:05 GMT -5
Germans and Germany ruling Europe. They are the half part and people of all Europeans. German Countries (Dutch) 1-Germany 2-Holland 3-Austria 4-Croatia 5-Part of Switzerland Germans are going to buy greece and maybe buying all that whole Europe. Germans ruling America as well too. Think about.
|
|
bato2
Moderator
Art Changed The World
Posts: 1,352
|
Post by bato2 on Mar 4, 2010 11:27:44 GMT -5
I bet Abramovich and other Ruski billionaires are getting exited
Greece should withdrawn from euro instead....That will be the best solution
|
|
|
Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 4, 2010 11:48:35 GMT -5
Germans are giving you guys some sound advise and instead you spit in their face. Typical Greek mindset. I have to say, this is all a lot of fun to watch. And to Ngadho: Cje duke thene ore?
|
|
|
Post by leshte on Mar 4, 2010 11:54:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by ngadhnjyesi on Mar 4, 2010 12:00:28 GMT -5
Germans are giving you guys some sound advise and instead you spit in their face. Typical Greek mindset. I have to say, this is all a lot of fun to watch. And to Ngadho: Cje duke thene ore? Toski believe me I am no friend of Greece but this advice was just borderline insane although I understand it was just a couple of right wing idiots.
|
|
Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
|
Post by Patrinos on Mar 4, 2010 12:01:11 GMT -5
I enjoy seeing Alvanous speaking about economy...
|
|
|
Post by leshte on Mar 4, 2010 12:02:40 GMT -5
O relax Patrinos. When you try to make fun of others you have to expect this. If you can't take it, then stop making fun of others.
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Mar 4, 2010 12:09:04 GMT -5
I doubt that the German people's profit from the Euro is that big as you are portraying it but such claims are impudent.
Of course they should be seen in the overall context. They are a provocative naughty answer to the antigerman campaigns of Greece right now.
Im starting to believe that it would be the best if Greece left the Eurozone...at least temporarily. And thats also what the Germans are purposing with such reactions...they want to make Greece feeling degraded in order to make it leaving the Eurozone voluntarily prefering this option from the European aid. They want to give the Greeks the feeling that if they take the money...that they will be in greatest debt to Europe...going so far that Europe will be able to determine Greek internal policy even. Greece shall deterredly resign afterwards. Germany is the harshest critic of all because it will be the one that will pay the aid to Greece mostly. It wont be France nor Italy not anyone else. Its all about money...and the German budgetary situation is as bad as never before, too.
Thus the Germans are not willing to pay a cent for Greece. This is the general stance of the people and that of the politicians. If they pay, it will be only because of European pressure. They see it as the ultima ratio. The reason for this stance is simple: The Germans had till 2002 the strong German Mark. The people were clearly against the Euro. But all politicians always affirmed that the new currency will be solid, too...and that Germany will never have to meet a bill of other countries in order to keep the Euro solid. Now they are realizing that things are not like that. And...instead of regretting the Euro...they regret to have affiliated Greece.
Greece is an easy target because its small...and weak. Its a practical scapegoat. If it was Spain or Italy...Im sure they wouldnt be that cheeky. And instead of attacking those countries they would discuss about to reintroduce the Deutsche Mark (I mean the journalists, not the politicians). Simply because an exclusion of Spain or Italy from the Eurozone would be much worse than that of little Greece. They would vice versa regret to have joined the Eurozone then.
|
|
Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
|
Post by Patrinos on Mar 4, 2010 12:20:08 GMT -5
Greece repeatedly says that doesn't want any bail out, not even a euro free. She just want political support from the Eurozone(not EU generally because UK is jerking) in order to loan in better conditions. The German tax payer would only benefit from that, indirectly, if we loan from German banks... We have plenty of open field to make big changes to strengthen our economy, living behind the unbelievable system of the extra benefited civil servants. I am very pleased that i see things today in Greece that i waited long time, and I see that Greeks are showing to be much mature for these important changes. (The demonstrations are very usual in Greece, and those that are happening these days are pretty small). yea sure.... thats why many economists call euro "masked mark".... The main exporter in EU is Germany, and the exporter who has the advantage in the European markets is the one that uses euro(not dollar, not pounds, not yen etc...), and this is Germany. No maths needed to understand it. Its simple logic, that if Germans don't get it they can immediately go back to dehwiutchje mark and stop pretending that they are paying all the rest because of their great humanistic past.... Why don't Germans sell their nazi concentration camps? I think they receive many tourists every year...some Jews would like to buy them...
|
|
Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
|
Post by Kanaris on Mar 4, 2010 13:12:33 GMT -5
Na pane na gamithoun i germani...
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Mar 4, 2010 13:30:02 GMT -5
We shouldnt hide behind our finger Patrine. Of course the Greek govrnment will say it doesnt need any aid. This is for political, diplomatic and economical reasons. It shall affect the psychology of the economy....and hush the rumors about Greece's and Europe's destiny. Greece has a bill due of 20 billion Euros on April. And then again another huge one few months later. Can you tell where Greece shall take this money from? If Greece does not leave the zone it will get European (especially German) aid out of necessity. Everyone just wants to delay it to the last moment...for whatever reason.
Im glad, too. Its important on the other hand that we keep it this way also after the crisis. Its important implement a change of the peoples' mentality now...and in the long run. Especially the Greeks tend to start the s.hit again if they see things going well again..
You dont understand Patrine. I said the German people...not the German industry. I can tell you about the people only. The Euro has never ever brought any advantages to us here. Nothing...in contrast. Many cheap jobs...increasing prices everywhere (although food is pretty cheap in contrast to Greece for example). Life has never improved in any way economically here. I see it with my parents...they have never been that pinched for money. The Euro did make some few people disproportionally rich....and it might have been many Germans among them. But that doesnt mean that the average German did benefit from it in any way. The traditionally strong middle class of Germany has definitely suffered many disadvantages from the Euro. It is as weak as never before today (except for the ante 1945 time). Not to talk about the lower class. Those are the people who pay the most taxes...those are the people that will grant economical help to Greece. What I say is based statistics...proven things. I dont talk out of my arse. So what are we talking here about...
|
|
|
Post by kartadolofonos on Mar 4, 2010 13:33:30 GMT -5
My Anwser to the 2 fukkking German politicians!! The Germans schould sell Germany to pay money for all the victims of the Nazi Holocaust in Europe!.
|
|
|
Post by ngadhnjyesi on Mar 4, 2010 13:49:32 GMT -5
I enjoy seeing Alvanous speaking about economy... All right we'll let you morons sort your own mess out. Peace.
|
|
Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
|
Post by Patrinos on Mar 4, 2010 14:05:27 GMT -5
The problem won't be solved with bailouts. Even if Germany would give for free 25 billion euros to Greece for this year, that is nothing for the reform of the economy. Greece needs money and we're going to loan, and the loaners will get their money back with interest 5 or 10 years later.
What you are talking is illogical. If the German titans wouldn't have these benefits and hence profits in countries that use euro, they wouldn't have survived or would increased their production, so less jobs for the Germans. And the hundreds of billions that enter in Germany are invested in Germany and the Deuthcen volken have better days...
And nobody will pay more taxes to ..save any Greece... we're going to loan, like all the countries more or less, and the banks will take it back... nothing for the German tax payer, except that more money will enter in their economy in long term.
|
|
|
Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 4, 2010 14:24:54 GMT -5
I say let some desperate German right wingers say what they will since if they end up handing over money (and since it is Germans who are lucky to even exist as a single country after the crap they put the world through in 20th century....) that will be more then enough of a slap in their face.
This coming from Germany and all the talk about deptors is funny since this is country that should have been disfigured and divided into at least 5-10 smaller mini states and made to pay for the next 100 years to their debtors (war reparations) which should include Greece.
It is like a thief talking about morality.
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Mar 4, 2010 16:18:32 GMT -5
Of course it will be loans...what else. But loans are also money and I doubt Europe will see that money so quickly again as you say...5-10 years...I doubt it. The total debt is 370 billions or sth.....
Patrine...wake up. How much of your Volkswagen Golf or Mercedes is "made in Germany"....look and then come back to tell us. German company doesnt mean German production anymore. It means pro-rata German production. I was living here from 2002 till now and you want to tell me if Germany did benefit or not?
And dont tell us the Euro saved Germany's companies.....Germany wasnt in the least proportionally weaker with the German Mark.
Dont try to impose on Germany an obligation to help (even with loans). They are not obligated in the least. Even if you were right they wouldnt. No one forces Greece to buy German products. Such an argumentation is simply absurd. The only reason Europe will pay for Greece is because they will themselves be affected from a Greek bankruptcy. So say thanks for that...and dont look like a peasant for supposed obligations of European countries towards Greece in order to charge them up against upcoming European aid.
|
|