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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 5, 2010 19:45:45 GMT -5
Ahahaha the Armenians killed 3 mio Turks. Of course....and Im the holy Mary.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 5, 2010 19:48:53 GMT -5
This will never make it to the floor of Congress on a real vote. The Armenian alethicide will never receive anything other than symbolic recognition.
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aayy
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Post by aayy on Mar 5, 2010 19:58:25 GMT -5
There is correlation.
Albanians played big role (if not the main) in Yugoslavia's falling apart. Were/Are they terrorist/separatists or only Armenians were?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 5, 2010 21:16:51 GMT -5
"So Armenians were terrorists/separatists while Kosovo Albanians were innocent civilians only?" ....you saw the obivious pick and choose whatever suits from Thracian. If she wants to supports Albanians thats fine, l could support the Armenians, Kurds and all the other ethnicities in Turkey too.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Mar 6, 2010 7:48:10 GMT -5
Ahahaha the Armenians killed 3 mio Turks. Of course....and Im the holy Mary. Exactly, I see Thracian is up to her old tricks again pouring out to anyone who will listen without questioning trying to have them believe Armenians killed 2million or 3 million Turks and again posting same old copy paste quotes, then making her usual references to the holier than though Turkish archives. How Thracian depicts Turkeys involvement in WW1 its as if Turkey was not at war with several countries but only at war with one people Armenians, whom were by vast majority unarmed civillians of Turkey ... Fact is Turks voluntarily joined WW1 and Turks had their agendas too. Turkey was at war with several countries and including Russia, that many Turks died as result of this war is understandable the suggestion that Armenians killed 2million Turks in WW1 is Propaganda BS in top gear, and upon closer inspection Thracian has never been able to prove this claim that she continuosly makes. Turks had already massacred up to 300,000 Armenians in Hamidian massacres between 1870's to 1909 . Then from 1915 Turkey went on an ethnic cleansing spree utilising Genocidal actions to rid Anatollia of up to 80% of its historical Armenian population, if that is not Genocide then there is no such thing as Genocide.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 6, 2010 8:59:39 GMT -5
"There is correlation.
Albanians played big role (if not the main) in Yugoslavia's falling apart. Were/Are they terrorist/separatists or only Armenians were?"
Aayy, l don't think Thracian will be able to answer you.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 6, 2010 11:44:02 GMT -5
Firstly the people that killed the Armenians weren't my ancestors. You can see the demography of the area in the archives. On another note. I wish the Armenians would stop fraffing about and open their archives too.... lets do the joint research. If it was a genocide so be it, and if not then just let it go...
bored of this on n on n on political circus.
Anyhow.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 6, 2010 17:11:22 GMT -5
My husbands best friend is 100% Kurdish from Mus in Turkey. During the time of the Armenian conflicts his greatgrandparents witnessed it. He tells it from their mouth, he said our neaighbours attacked, they killed many of the people (all kurdish) because they were muslims. A Russian general even witnessed their atrocities and recorded it as inhumane murders, they tortured many civilians including men and women. They thought the Russians were going to stand by them, but they did'nt. After the worst of it happened the Armenians felt remorse and wrote essages onto pieces of paper, tied them to rocks and threw the rocks through the windows of the few Kurdish families left alive. The Kurdish people in that region were 100% right for attacking back and killing as many armenians as was possible. If the Ottomans hadn't driven out the Armenians they would all be dead, there wouldn't be a diaspora.
Thats one account of a man who's family witnessed it.
The same happened in Adana my greatgradparents also witnessed it.
I think at time the Ottomans should have committed genocide then at least we wouldnt have this accusation thrown at us like this. At least it would be true and we would accept it.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 6, 2010 17:16:30 GMT -5
Albanians in Kosova: concentrated ethnic population majority within a defined region. Armenians in Turkey: dispersed population with no clear boundaries without any significant majority in any of the regions they inhabited.
Thats the difference between the two groups.
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Post by hellboy87 on Mar 6, 2010 18:37:48 GMT -5
ermm......I guess so^
Most Anatolian Armenians were in Eastern Anatolia.There was even a large community in southern Anatolia.There were smaller urban communities in Izmir and Istanbul.I dont know about other places.
I think if the Armenians got their "Western Armenia",there will be a significant amount of non-Armenians in their country.
In many parts in Eastern Anatolia,had Turks and Kurds living there as well.But I think it was more the Turks because the Kurds were in the southeast.That's how many Armenians,I guess,managed to give Turks and Kurds their children when they were taken away to be killed.
And their descendants today,are the Crypto-Armenians of Turkey!
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aayy
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Post by aayy on Mar 6, 2010 19:08:06 GMT -5
American ambassedor in Ottoman Empire: "When the Turkish authorities gave the orders for these deportations, they were merely giving the death warrant to a whole race; they understood this well,…"
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 6, 2010 19:08:28 GMT -5
Many Armenian sites preach hatred against Kurds because they know it was them that caused the greatest sufferings to them. Kurds are like robocops they can crush people. They are very strong. Why u think the govt at the time moved Kurds to Cyprus? They are fighters, naturally genetically built to survive. I respect that aspect of them, and I like them more now They were loyal citizens of the Ottoman empire, while the army was weak in the west they stood up and smashed those armenian murderers
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 6, 2010 19:09:09 GMT -5
If the Ottomans didn't move them, there would have been ZERO survivers. whch did they prefer?
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Post by oszkarthehun on Mar 6, 2010 23:31:57 GMT -5
Kurds were attacking Armenians way before Armenians attacked Kurds, Kurds were a somewhat unsettled nomadic people, they were raiding Armenian villages and killing people for sometime before their was retribution from Armenians, Armeninas went to the Gov authorities and complained about this asking for help but nothing was done. Armenian Fediye groups started forming as self defence units for Arm villages of course in these situations some retribution occurs, mind you I wouldnt necessarily trust entirely the accounts of a Kurd whom paints such a story to excuse his fellow Kurds for their barbarity in that time not to mention their provocation as they were robbers and raiders. None the less in my oppinion this does not diminish nor excuse the Ottoman authority 's part in this Genocide, Hamid who boasted about the number of Armenians that were killed under his authority and yes much of that was done by his Kurdish forces the Hamidiye, the fact is Ottomans hated Armenians and wanted rid of them it suited them for many reasons to be rid of them, and the idea that they were deported to avoid conflicts with Kurds is BS and the fact you say this shows how much you dont know this history very well, the deportations took place after the Hamidian massacres , deportations took place already in 1915 and occured in many places where there were no Kurds, even in Istanbul and certain central and western parts of Turkey deportations occured. Now you think you like the Kurds more but I have seen many admissions by Kurds that Armeninans of Anatollia suffered a genocide at the hands of the Ottoman authority. The Ottoman authoritys did commit a Genocide, its not easy for Turks to accept because the issue has been swept under the carpet for a long time and Turks have been fed the Propaganda from their Government. I mean how many modern countries have such laws where you can be charged or arrested for insulting the nations honour by publicly having the oppinion that the said nation committed genocidal acts, this was Turkeys article 301 law..."insulting Turkishness" and yes how dare we. "Kurdish recognition of the Armenian Genocide is the recognition of the Kurdish participation in the ethnic cleansing of Armenians during World War I, when Kurdish tribal forces (as well as Turks and Muslims from various Caucasian tribes) attacked and killed Armenian civilians and refugees. In several of the Kurdish regions, the Kurds participated in the genocide of the Armenians while others opposed the genocide, in many cases even hiding or adopting Armenian refugees.[1] Kurds in prison were given amnesty and released from prison if they would massacre the Armenians.[2] The Kurdish Institute of Paris has recognized the 1915 massacres as genocide. The Armenian genocide is often mentioned in monthly magazine published by the Kurdish Institute. Kurdish Media have published over 100 articles about the Genocide,[14], Mufid Abdulla is one of the authors to the articles and in 2008 he published an article about the "Armenian Genocide and the Kurdish involvement. The Kurdish Globe has several times published articles about the Armenian/Assyrian genocide[16], the most significant is the article "History of genocide" published in the Kurdish Globe in 2008.[17] Kurdish apologized to the Armenian people for silence and complicity in the Armenian Genocide. The Ozgur Gundem website at the same time also had a detailed publications on the genocide, hardships and sufferings of the Armenian people. Kurdish Herald is an independent publication, which features critical analysis of the politics, economics and culture of Kurdistan. The Kurdish Herald has it written in their policy and guidelines that they don't publish material includin "Denial of the Armenian Genocide, including using attributes that lessen the significance of the event"[19] Kurd.se have published news about the Genocide before, one of them is "Ahmet Turk apologizes to Armenians and Assyrians" where the head of the Kurdish party DTP talked about the 1915 events[22] Candidate to the EU Parliament, the Left Party, wrote an article in the Swedish-Kurdish newspaper Beyan.net February 5, 2008 on the Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoðan protest against the Israeli President Shimon Peres. In this article, Berivan also mentions the genocide in Turkey: The genocide of Armenians between 1915 and 1923 is a tragedy which Turkey still refuses to recognize. In this genocide was carried out even murders of Greeks, Assyrians, Syrians and Chaldeans. But Turkey's human rights abuses is not only to the past. Even today conducted a political, cultural and economic oppression of the Kurdish people in Turkey Facebook group is created called "Kurds Recognize the Armenian Genocide"[34 Author and former chairman of PEN-Kurd wrote a long letter on his homepage where he wrote that the Armenian genocide was one the two largest genocides of the twentieth century" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_recognition_of_the_Armenian_genocide"The PKK leadership has recognized the Armenian Genocide and apologized for Kurdish involvement.[17] There have also been seminars held by Armenian and Kurdish groups to discuss both the Genocide and Turkey." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian%E2%80%93Kurdish_relations"An important Kurdish Leader in Turkey apologizes for the contribution of the Kurds to the Aramean Genocide of 1915- Appeal to Ahmet Turk." www.aramnahrin.org/English/Ahmet_Turk_Aramean_Genocide_3_1_2009.htm"BRUSSELS-The Kurdish Parliament in Exile, passed a resolution recognizing and marking the Armenian Genocide Thursday. Below is the entire text of that resolution, which is being reprinted in its entirety and without any editorial posturing." "In Kurdistan, together with the Kurdish people, live Assyrian-Syrians as well as Armenians. Invasion, occupation and division of Kurdistan, has not only affected the Kurds but also the Assyrian-Syrians as well as the Armenian peoples. Imposed colonialist policies have set these people against the Kurdish people and against each other, have created clashes and forced deportations and exiles. In our country, by setting the peoples against each other, the bloodiest imposed period of colonialist policies is 1915 and the few years following that. On April 24, 1915, the decision of mass genocide and annihilation of the Assyrian-Syrian and the Armenian peoples was taken by the Ottoman Empire." www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Recognition_of_Armenian_Genocide_by_Kurds
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 7, 2010 5:43:29 GMT -5
lol so the pkk recognise the genocide, this is some messed up wierd argument u have LOL. The PKK has Armenian members. The PKK has camps in Armenia and Greece.
This is the most weightless argument or point i have ever come across in this forum. Please Oskar refrain from posting in Armenian threads as you are totally subjective and support the Armenians aimlessly.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Mar 8, 2010 2:53:41 GMT -5
PKK is only one Kudish group mentioned that you have chosen to highlight but in fact many Kurdish groups and Kurdish Media recognise the Armenian Genocide and recognise and oppologise for their part in it.
I dont support the Armenians aimlessly and I am not totally subjective my interest and research of this matter started many years before I was married. Just because I believe that what happened to the Anatollian Armenians fits the definition of Genocide it then may suit some to say such things. what was the weight of your argument ? the story from a Kurdish friend of your husband trying to justify Kurdish killings of Armenians then you drawing some conclusion from such a story that therefore there was no Genocide, I would consider that argument quite weightless actually.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 8, 2010 8:34:59 GMT -5
Really ? so your 'wikipedia' references and your DTP - terrorist mp site is worth a lot of weight is it... get a life. I didn't justify anything but if someone came and attacked my family and i, ýd kill them too.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Mar 8, 2010 10:12:54 GMT -5
Lets look at your refs: Kurdish Institute of Paris - name the PKk as rebels not terrorists and use articles in their favour. no credibility Center of Halabja against Anfalization and Genocide of the Kurds (CHAK) - have an article against calling the PKK terrorists and name them as the salvation army. The DTPs Ahmet Turk everyone is aware of his PKK history KDP same as DTP Abdullah Ocalan - LOL leader of the PKK The Kurdish counsilof Armenia : The president of the Kurdish Council Armenia, Knyaz Hasanov has repeatedly spoken about the Armenian genocide. On March 10, 2009 said Hasanov to the Kurds who participated in massacres against the Armenians were separate Kurds and not the Kurdish nation[10]. Note the non useage of the word genocide. thesepeoplealsodonot have an offical website(wiki) KOngra Gel - PKK Kurdish Parliament in exile are who exactly?LOL Apart from this everything else is articles written by individuals. You are so baseless. I guess ur the kind who would sit backand not retaliate if people attacked ur village for being a different religion or race. Just let them die huh..? if u attackbackit may be a genocide? U are a loser as far as I am concerned,you have never ever been able to post an official document about the Ottomans pure guilt.U just jump onto the backs ofothers who claim genocide... First prove what ur saying then use others as backup. As for my friends account and the same thing happening tomy family u think its funny? u think it isn't real then u are history blind go see a doctor
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Post by thracian08 on Mar 8, 2010 12:53:57 GMT -5
The point is that Armenians point a one sided view that only they died, and that the Ottoman gov't purposefully wanted to kill them.
That's not the case at all.
They uprised against the Ottomans, and mass killed Turks - aka civilians, not armed people.
Actually after the mass murder Armenians perpetrated, they had to deport the Eastern Armenians who participated in the revolt. Most died not from fighting Turks, but from diseases, and bad conditions. Western Armenians weren't touched b/c they were not involved in it.
That's what disgusts me the one sided viewpoint, and the lies that Armenians tell.
Armenians do not even acknowledge what they did.
And Ayy, I had quoted to you before of what the RUssian military people note about how the Armenians mass killed the Turks, YOu completely ignore this, and instead go with your 1 sided viewpoint.
You have to note the Ottoman military also did not have shoes even, so you have to ponder upon the conditions of the time.
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Post by thracian08 on Mar 8, 2010 13:10:21 GMT -5
Ayy, please explain how it was the Albanians caused Yugoslavia to fall apart? Croats Slovenia, then and Bosnians first split apart, and lastly it was the Albanians The end of the Second Yugoslavia Various dates are considered as the end of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia: June 25, 1991, when Croatia and Slovenia declared independence September 8, 1991, following a referendum the Republic of Macedonia declared independence October 8, 1991, when the July 9 moratorium on Slovenian and Croatian secession was ended and Croatia restated its independence in Croatian Parliament (that day is celebrated as Independence Day in Croatia) January 15, 1992, when Slovenia and Croatia were internationally recognized by most European countries April 6, 1992, full recognition of Bosnia and Herzegovina’s independence by the United States and most European countries April 28, 1992, Federal Republic of Yugoslavia is formed November 1995, Dayton Agreement is signed by leaders of FR Yugoslavia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia June 14, 1996, the Agreement on Sub-Regional Arms Control is signed, limiting the military equipment of FR Yugoslavia, Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia 1996–1999, Clashes between Yugoslav army and KLA March 24-June 10, 1999, NATO bombing of FR Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro) June 1999, UN and NATO administration arrived in Kosovo February 5, 2003, State Union of Serbia and Montenegro constituted June 5, 2006, After referendum in Montenegro, Montenegro declared their independence and Serbia stated it is the successor of the State Union. February 17, 2008, Kosovo declared independence from Serbia
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