Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Mar 15, 2010 8:10:43 GMT -5
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 15, 2010 10:49:27 GMT -5
Interesting that many are showing roman influence in the lower face (many have reduced faces and small roman chins). Look at lower picts of roman facial profiles for what I am talking about. Statue of Roman Emperor Caligula. Circa 39-40 A.D. Marble. Musée du Louvre, Paris. The Boxer is a hellenistic sculpture found during excavation of the Quirinal hill in Rome. The non-idealised features show this is intended to be a portrait, placing it firmly in the hellenistic age. Sculpture is no longer showing idealised forms, but specific people with specific features. Nikkormat EL 50mm in Spring 2007, at the National Museum in the Palazzo Massimo. source www.flickr.com/groups/ancientgreece/pool/tags/First is a Roman face and second is a Greek face (Greek face being elongated, wider with usually square like chin)
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 15, 2010 11:44:45 GMT -5
I dont know if they look Roman...but I dont find them to look Italian. What I notice is that they look somewhat less med. than the average Greek. They have lighter skin and look generally more Balkanian...(Thracian?). At least the ones on the pic. I cant find one where I would say...this one is to 100% a Greek. Do the pics show people from the Polis or from the diaspora? But there are also Konstantinoupolites who are very dark...Anatolian looking. ...or remember the little b!tch that sang the turkish anthem.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 15, 2010 14:58:25 GMT -5
Caligula doesnt typify the classical Roman look, neither does the statue portray a typical Greek look. Both are idealizations of a sort (negative and positive, idealization doesnt have to be of beauty, the bust is dramatic). But ofcourse what would Admin know of that. For a typical Roman look, look at Caesar, Augustus or other Republican busts. Caligula looks Italian and Med, but he is not a typical Roman. I opened a topic showing typical Roman faces, and if you want to see Roman looking people, all you have to do is walk around the streets of Rome today. Italians have the biggest amount of continuity possible. These people have notable Balkan Euro features.
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Post by thracian08 on Mar 15, 2010 15:44:57 GMT -5
I think Greeks are a mix of different people in the different city states, who over time adopted the Greek language.
That's why you can see a lot of variations between them. Generally speaking, alot of them have long oval small faces and a narrow hairline.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Mar 16, 2010 4:28:05 GMT -5
After the Fall of Polis in 1453, the deserted City was repopulated by Greeks mainly from Peloponnesos, and Greeks from allover the Greek world. Probably the pre 1453 Constantinopolites returned to their homes after... even if the big families were spread throughout Greek places, like Mavrokordatoi, Kantakouzinoi, Palaiologoi, Komnenoi, Aggeloi, etc For sure the Greeks from Minor Asia have mixed with indigenous people who got hellenized before and after Alexander, Carians, Lydians, Cappadocians etc etc, just like in mainland Greece with the pre Greek substratum. In the beginning of the 20th century the about 1.5 million Greeks were found in areas where they were heavily colonized in ancient and medieval times, in the coasts of Aegean(Ionia, Aiolis, Doris, Propontis,Troas) in Pontos(Trapezous, Amaseia, Amisos(Samsous)) and in urban centers of inland and south (Kaisareia, Adana, Attaleia etc). I must say that Polites look that they are good businessmen... The above are ex students of the " Megali toy Genous Scholi" www.megalisxoli.gr/ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phanar_Greek_Orthodox_College
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Post by hellboy87 on Mar 16, 2010 7:57:26 GMT -5
I dont know if they look Roman...but I dont find them to look Italian. What I notice is that they look somewhat less med. than the average Greek. They have lighter skin and look generally more Balkanian...(Thracian?). At least the ones on the pic. I cant find one where I would say...this one is to 100% a Greek. Do the pics show people from the Polis or from the diaspora? But there are also Konstantinoupolites who are very dark...Anatolian looking. Only some of them look non-Med European.Many look Euro-Med and others look Middle Eastern. And yes,there are the very Middle Eastern Anatolian looking types as well. But you,I remember,you have rosy white skin ...or remember the little b!tch that sang the turkish anthem. My my! Wow! LOL!!!! What's up? ;D
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Post by hellboy87 on Mar 16, 2010 8:42:51 GMT -5
After the Fall of Polis in 1453, the deserted City was repopulated by Greeks mainly from Peloponnesos, and Greeks from allover the Greek world. Probably the pre 1453 Constantinopolites returned to their homes after... even if the big families were spread throughout Greek places, like Mavrokordatoi, Kantakouzinoi, Palaiologoi, Komnenoi, Aggeloi, etc For sure the Greeks from Minor Asia have mixed with indigenous people who got hellenized before and after Alexander, Carians, Lydians, Cappadocians etc etc, just like in mainland Greece with the pre Greek substratum. In the beginning of the 20th century the about 1.5 million Greeks were found in areas where they were heavily colonized in ancient and medieval times, in the coasts of Aegean(Ionia, Aiolis, Doris, Propontis,Troas) in Pontos(Trapezous, Amaseia, Amisos(Samsous)) and in urban centers of inland and south (Kaisareia, Adana, Attaleia etc). Are you sure that Polis was partly repopulated by Peloponessians and other from the Greek world? Also,I thought the Greeks,were like the Turks:they Hellenized parts of Anatolia but did not populate it.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
|
Post by Patrinos on Mar 16, 2010 11:15:56 GMT -5
After the Fall of Polis in 1453, the deserted City was repopulated by Greeks mainly from Peloponnesos, and Greeks from allover the Greek world. Probably the pre 1453 Constantinopolites returned to their homes after... even if the big families were spread throughout Greek places, like Mavrokordatoi, Kantakouzinoi, Palaiologoi, Komnenoi, Aggeloi, etc For sure the Greeks from Minor Asia have mixed with indigenous people who got hellenized before and after Alexander, Carians, Lydians, Cappadocians etc etc, just like in mainland Greece with the pre Greek substratum. In the beginning of the 20th century the about 1.5 million Greeks were found in areas where they were heavily colonized in ancient and medieval times, in the coasts of Aegean(Ionia, Aiolis, Doris, Propontis,Troas) in Pontos(Trapezous, Amaseia, Amisos(Samsous)) and in urban centers of inland and south (Kaisareia, Adana, Attaleia etc). Are you sure that Polis was partly repopulated by Peloponessians and other from the Greek world? Also,I thought the Greeks,were like the Turks:they Hellenized parts of Anatolia but did not populate it. I know two times at least. One in the 8th century with thousands from the Theme of Peloponnesos, after a plague in Polis. And the other with 25-30.000 Greeks from the northern eastern part of Peloponnesos in the middle of 15th century, transfered by Mohamed... And in 1770-79 30.000 Peloponnesians fled to Mikra Asia, in the area of Kydonies(Aivali) during the Tourkalbanian raids and occupation................... And of course during the ancient ages the Greeks colonization in the Minor Asia was much more than massive, with hundreds of new Greek towns and repopulation of local towns. After Alexander and during his Diadochoi another similar great and massive colonization by Greeks reoccured, this time mainly in the inland and south Minor Asia and more heavily in Near East(Pentapolis, Damascos, Antiochia etc etc) and Egypt and Kyrenaica with really hundreds of thousands of Greeks migrated there from all the Greek mainland and isles.
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 16, 2010 12:01:19 GMT -5
I dont find them to look typical med because most of them could somewhat be Autrians for example as well...I dont say they look Scandinavian or Slavic or sth like that. They also do not look like exotic Greeks...but they dont have this undoubtful Greek look...like Patrinos father for example or his brother...or Patrinos himself. My skin colour is rosy white-pale thats right....I have totally straight hair...and partially red beard growth. I look totally ungreek...rather like a s.hitty slav.....doesnt matter, essentially we have health. ;D
Whats the matter?
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 16, 2010 12:23:05 GMT -5
Melty All of those you mentioned have the same features as I described on the statues and these are generally the patterns followed by Romans while those same features are most noticeable from what I saw from exactly today's Italians (meaning more so then any other people but not to say all have it). Again the features is reduced face (or 'baby face' - nose is roughly halfway between chin and eyebrows) and smaller roundish chin (that on the profile goes behind the lips). In my region (including Croatia) this influence is most common in the coastal regions (populated by Romans thus their influence) while less common in inland regions (apart from parts of central Serbia then then again this was ancient Roman Moesia). Greek face is elongated with prominent square like chin that on the profile goes in front of the lips. Augustus Augustus JULIUS CAESAR (features are half way between Roman and Greek thus Greco- Roman. Even his chin is more prominent and face more elongated while balding is trait that is among most common in Balkans) Octavian (Greco-Roman) Constantine the Great (exhibits also what I call 'Greek eyes' or big eyes that curl downwards away from the nose) downwards ) Mainly Greek features (Note the Greek chin) Theodosius the Great (Greco-Roman) Note: Most ruling Romans exhibited Greco-Roman features (especially more successful ones). The maximum extent of Roman Empire under Trajan in AD 117 Greek features Aristotle Thucydides Demosthenes The Greek world in the mid 6th century BCE.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 16, 2010 12:31:55 GMT -5
Italian are showing generally more greco-roman features then just plain roman just like ancient Romans thus continuity is there (and usually have large eyes also).
Greeks exhibit mainly Greek and then Greco-Roman features while Big Greek eyes are clearly noticeable thus continuity is there.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 16, 2010 18:06:18 GMT -5
greco-Roman is not a real term, its an invented 19th century terminology. The one thing you are taught when you enter into a Greek or Latin program is that the two are in reality rather distinct (and, as I have learned as I moved between Latin and Greek departments, are pretty diverse in their own right in terms of social-cultural ideas that were not so noticable to 19th century scholars who came up). For the most part Greco-Roman refers to 1) a blended architectural style 2) the Med world in the later Roman polity. It does not signify a reality however. It is equally bizarre to use the term when referring to false anthropological concepts which would not even be considered legitimate.
Secondly, you are tranversing across different time periods. Theodosius was Hispanic (and that depiction of him is a 19th century recreation drawing, it is almost impossible to determine the real look of many later Roman emperors, Justinian being the last real facially recognizable before the tradition of realistic depictions fades alltogether in the Byzantine realm and western realm), Constantine Balkan-Anatolic (mixed Greek and "Balkan", however looked weird to say the least). Secondly, the Constantine bust is misleading in comparison to the others since it uses a different type of style more notable of the later Roman Empire. The big eyes are not Greek, they are simply a stylistic development that becomes more pronounced in the middle ages (the further away from "classical antiquity" the bigger the eyes). It is especially noticable in the Christian era. If you look at western and eastern european chronicles of the middle ages, they all seem to have huge eyes. Look at Byzantine coinage for instance Thats why Constantine has such big eyes. If you look at funerary busts you would think it was a world of aliens. This was an adaptation from the Near East.
No... there is evidence that hairloss is more common in the Balkans. In the US, about 50% of men will grow bald by 45-50. This is a general tendency in the US and European world in general. The Balkans is really no exception. I would say at times Ive noticed less hairloss among, say, Serbs, than many others. Karadzic being an amazing example, Tadic as well, Vuk Zeremic as well. When I look at Serb parliamentarians, it seems like barely a 1/3 are bald. Sali berisha is another example in Albania, or Ilir Meta.
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 17, 2010 2:11:40 GMT -5
I dont know why it is important to make an association to the Romans and ancient Greeks...those peoples' ancestors will most probably have had zero contact to Rome...
The Romans looked nothing like the ancient Greeks...they were two different peoples. The Romans had their very own look...and its notable how this look could be preserved till today among many Italians...and only among Italians.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 10:51:46 GMT -5
Moving to another thread.
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