MiG
Amicus
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Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Mar 29, 2010 15:48:31 GMT -5
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 29, 2010 16:44:50 GMT -5
I fully sympathize with the Chechen struggle and believe Russians had this coming for the way they have been treating them... but this is not the way to get attention in an age of "anti-terrorism". Russia will now come out as a "victim" and Chechens as murderers and criminals...
Im very very thankful that my people didnt fall for this Islamic BS that Chechens have been taken over by.
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gavrilo
Amicus
Vi ste svi banane
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Post by gavrilo on Mar 29, 2010 21:31:59 GMT -5
I cannot wait for the russians to find and torture those extremist terrorists.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Mar 29, 2010 23:50:59 GMT -5
I fully sympathize with the Chechen struggle and believe Russians had this coming for the way they have been treating them... but this is not the way to get attention in an age of "anti-terrorism". Russia will now come out as a "victim" and Chechens as murderers and criminals... Im very very thankful that my people didnt fall for this Islamic BS that Chechens have been taken over by. It happens. Russia is growing more and more nationalist. These kinds of actions will only feed the Russians full of hatred. I, however, am on Russia's side. Not only because of the terrorist actions done upon the Russian Populace... but because of the cleansing of nearly 250,000 Orthodox Russians from Chechnya by 1994. The Russians will become very extreme, and if its anyone to teach these people by setting and example, its the Russians. Albanians are way too modern and educated for this kind of BS though.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 30, 2010 0:00:24 GMT -5
Russians living there were little more than imperial/soviet groups meant to undermine the population of the region. Since the 19th century Czarist invasion, the Caucasus has been the subject of dozens of ethnic cleansing and massacres because of Russian campaigns. Its not surprise that Russians were kicked out in the 90s anymore than I pity French Algerian victims of the Algerian uprising... they had not business being there to begin with, they are imperialist tools. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhajir_%28Caucasus%29The Chechens have made numerous mistakes (not consolidating their movement but allowing Mudjahadeens to attack neighboring pro-Russian Muslim areas among them, let alone the anarchy that developed in the region after the first war were among them), but they are on the whole victims of Russia's traditional repression and cruelty. They alongside numerous other ethnic groups that have experienced colonization and assimilation by Russia. I think one day these groups, many now on a demographic rise in Russia once again, will one day be Russia's doom... especially if it ever happens that Russian population can no longer sustain the control.
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Mar 30, 2010 0:19:00 GMT -5
Be that as it may, this still portrays Russia and Russians as victims. They have that excuse to do whatever they want.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 30, 2010 0:22:44 GMT -5
That I do agree... they are fighting a war against civilians, and Palestinians can attest for how well that works. If they bombed infrastructure (bridges, pipelines etc. etc.) or if they simply attacked military/political targets the media image would not be so negative. But this is the post-911 world...
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Post by insomniac on Mar 30, 2010 0:28:55 GMT -5
Isn't there Dagestan and Ingushetia as well wishing to separate? Yep.. Russia is a time ticking bomb. Next olympics will be held close to that area. I dont think that's a good idea. :S
In this attack, i support Russia. Innocent people died. Could have been anybody in that metro Melty. Doesn't justify anything.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 30, 2010 0:52:25 GMT -5
Its a burden that Russian citizens should be made to bear for being members of one of the most oppressive nations around. My hostility towards Russians and Russia are well known, but the fact is in this case, when you have an entire people who have faced as much horror and murder as Chechens have (thousands upon thousands of Chechens were murdered by the Russian military) while their whole society was turned upside down by the heavy handed manner inwhich Russia restored control.
What would you do in their scenario. Not to mention Putin has tried to alleviate the problem by promoting Islam in the region. He has financed the construction of numerous mosques and has promoted Islamic educators... now you have an entirely Islaminized population hardened by war and repression.
My concern here is the issue of media image, the moral concerns of the attack and murder of life are not really my issue.
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Post by insomniac on Mar 30, 2010 1:05:20 GMT -5
They want to fight honorably, they should target military targets. In real life you have nothing in common with these people. I don't care their ideology. When human lives are concerned the moral aspects should be your issue.
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 30, 2010 1:13:48 GMT -5
I like the idea of Russians getting a legitimation for military actions against muslims...I want the Russians to interfere more in the world's affairs in general. Perhaps they can benefit in this field from this terrorist attack.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 30, 2010 1:23:50 GMT -5
They want to fight honorably, they should target military targets. In real life you have nothing in common with these people. I don't care their ideology. When human lives are concerned the moral aspects should be your issue. At this time, I can't really feel any sympathy for Russkies. Read the book Eine Frau in Berlin (A Woman in Berlin). Its the memoir of*german woman living in occupied post-War Berlin, where close to a million German civilians (women and girls) were raped by Russian soldiers. Almost none of the rapists were ever charged by the Soviet-Russian state at any point. This is the kind of society Chechens have been living under... you will then see why I don't feel my sympathy for them. These same kind of crimes were committed on the Chechen populace during the war...
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Mar 30, 2010 5:51:59 GMT -5
But this is the post-911 world... Man if 9-11 happened 10-2 years earlier far out how different the Balkan conflicts could have panned out.
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aayy
Amicus
Posts: 469
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Post by aayy on Mar 30, 2010 9:47:26 GMT -5
Do you honestly believe that Albanians have higher "war culture"? By no means. Much lower...
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aayy
Amicus
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Post by aayy on Mar 30, 2010 9:50:31 GMT -5
Chechnya was practically independent after perestroyka and after 1996 agreement, but they created such a bandit country, that Russia had to react somehow. They invaded Russia after all.
Dagestan doesn't want independance from Russia.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 30, 2010 12:29:28 GMT -5
Do you honestly believe that Albanians have higher "war culture"? By no means. Much lower... Try and find Serbian women who were raped by Albanians in the post 99 period. See what kind of finds research brings. Kosovo had among the lowest cases of rape in Yugoslavia. On the contrary, Serbs committed dozens of thousands of rapes in Bosnia and Kosovo. Among the Russian people it was on a uniquely large scale and it wasnt just a case of rape. Over 60% of the rape cases were cases of gang rapes. Women were taken to shacks by Russian soldiers and then raped by up to 20 different men. Some of these women were pregnant. Russians are unique in the level of their savagery. Must be the asiatic genes in your people. Russians were among the only people who also used asiatic forms of punishment such as cutting off peoples noses and other body parts, gouging eyes, mutilation... stuff common among Chinese. That is why it is obvious why Chechens resorted to what they were forced to.
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Post by hellboy87 on Mar 30, 2010 14:01:00 GMT -5
Try and find Serbian women who were raped by Albanians in the post 99 period. See what kind of finds research brings. Kosovo had among the lowest cases of rape in Yugoslavia. On the contrary, Serbs committed dozens of thousands of rapes in Bosnia and Kosovo. Among the Russian people it was on a uniquely large scale and it wasnt just a case of rape. Over 60% of the rape cases were cases of gang rapes. Women were taken to shacks by Russian soldiers and then raped by up to 20 different men. Some of these women were pregnant. HMMMMM!!!!!!!!!! IIIiiiiii woonnnnderr.............
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aayy
Amicus
Posts: 469
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Post by aayy on Mar 30, 2010 14:25:44 GMT -5
Toskaliku is a local showman.
I remember reading post (in this forum or in former Beograd.com) by someone whose parents used to live in Kosovo. He said that it was impossible for Serbian girls to go out in Kosovo because of danger of being raped. Though he added it was the case in muslim Albanian regions, not catholic Albanian.
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Post by hellboy87 on Mar 30, 2010 14:30:38 GMT -5
showman tosky? I dont know.
Well,I dont know about the Kosovo thing
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 30, 2010 14:53:27 GMT -5
Please post some statistical evidence, not forum chat/posts. Thats what really counts. Some stories told in forums can easily be made up by the posters... Please post real cases of rape accounted for by UN NGO groups. Here if you want to catch up on Orthodox Christian crimes (generalized Serbo-Russian): mailer.fsu.edu/~whmoore/garnet-whmoore/JillianWeise.pdfHere is an interesting statistic: Ten years back there was an intensive propaganda in the Serb media about the rape of Serb women in Kosovo by Albanian men. In 1990, an independent committee of Serbian lawyers and human rights experts carried out a study to verify these allegations. On analysing all the statistics on rape and attempted rape for the 1980s, they found that the frequency of the crime was significantly lower in Kosovo than in other parts of Yugoslavia. While inner Serbia, on an average, had 2.43 cases per year for every 10,000 men in the population, the figure in Kosovo was 0.96. Their findings also negated the allegations of wide scale rape of Serb women in Kosovo.www.unmikonline.org/civpol/articles/oneleg.htm(We are not like you Russians, dont insult us like that. That mentality of rape and brutality among a Euro people is unique among the Ruskies, even the Nazis did not behave in such a savage way)
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