Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 2, 2010 6:44:38 GMT -5
Basil, you make the assumption that ur crisis is all due to the arms Greece buys, whereas u seem to forget about a popular activity called TAX , you know the one thing Greeks don't pay much. Regardless you are correct, Turks have been through many wars, and those living in the SE are literally living in poverty. They don't care not much would change. I assume perhaps the bigger cities would be affected, but to be honest with you, I dont think the people of Turkey would be affected as much as the people of Greece. The army would deal with whatever it has to.
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 2, 2010 7:04:35 GMT -5
Personally I dont knoe the plans of Turkey. But i do know the concequences. 20-30 years for unstopable gun expenditures for Greece. The same expences for Turkey play no role because of the quality leaving standards Turkish society has. I mean.. a Turk in rural area.. or a poor Turk meaning huge percent of Turkish society does not care about Turkish arms expences. He is uneducated.. fed by nationalist stuff... and keeps sleaping on the ground happily dreaming the Ottoman Empire. The Greek citizen things tottaly different; 'lets finish with it so for us to move economically towards."So as you can see.. the ones who loose is the Greek society who has high standarts. Turkey knows that and that is why the keep pushing and pushing. Remember that. If Turkey will enter EU and if EU goes stronger... USA will 'push" Turkey to start a war with one member of EU. I believe is innevitable. You are right. Arming of both countries was not very clever. However, please note that it was mainly the arm exporters of the EU which benefited from granting loans to Greece in exchange with their arm exports, it was not Turkey. Moreover, you and I know that Turkey and the EU relations get better over time even though this will not result in some Turkish membership. This is due to two major factors: 1. The EU is not getting any stronger despite expanding its borders. " Stronger Turkey of the future as an adjusting power of the European affairs" would only scare more EU countries. 2. Turkey is a dynamic country, which geared up its focus to a global level rather than restricting herself to the low possiblities of some EU membership. Finally, the credibility of the US policies get eroded not only in Turkey, but also in the world in general. So, I do not agree that the US could provoke Turkey to attack on any of the EU members. In my humble opinion, within 30-40 years time, the US will have far less power in the balance of global powers compared to what is practised today.
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 2, 2010 7:43:15 GMT -5
listen to basil...he knows everything.
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 2, 2010 12:05:16 GMT -5
Yes Vizier, also even if Turkey doesn't get into the EU, it won't matter. Turkey is in the G 14 and will be G 10th in the world. I know that the USA has less power over Turkey - aka Turkey didn't allow US troops in the war against IRaq and Turkey is smart and does not want to help the US very much. That's why Turkey has big trade with Europe, Russia, and Arabic countries. That's why it's leaning towards the EU. The EU could use the cheap labor b/c a high percentage of young people are in TUrkey. and it would increase employment in Turkey. Basil in your analysis of Turks, no the average Turk does not think of the Ottomans, they think about the Turkish Republic. It seems to me that the Greeks think about the Byzantines DY, hope you have a great time in Istanbul, I can't wait to go this summer ! Enjoy the nightlife
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 2, 2010 17:25:32 GMT -5
listen to basil...he knows everything. ... xazoulis telika eisai e?
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 2, 2010 18:58:27 GMT -5
giati psemmata leo...afou ta ksereis ola esi...liseis kai apantiseis amesos se ola ta zitimata kai themata apo ton Basil ton Great....
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 2, 2010 20:24:09 GMT -5
Afto einai pou sou leo sto allo post sxetika me paidia kai antres.. Afto pou kaneis tora einai poli paidiko.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 2, 2010 21:42:44 GMT -5
Germans and Japanese lost to the higher power of numbers that America and Russia put out. The industrial capability of both was completely topped by the industrial capabilities of USSR and the US. You guys compare yourself to the economic and industrial power of these nations? The US was able to field dozens more ships to defeat the Japanese, who could not sustain the heavy losses as well, and the Soviet Union took 26 million to kill 8 million Germans. Turkey not only has higher industrial capabilities, but higher numerical power as well... To put it simply: in a comparison between Turkey and Greece, Turkey is the US and Greece is Japan. 1000 deaths to the Turkish army is far less tough than a 1000 deaths for the Greek army. Eitherway, Im not too sure, but I dont believe either country produces its own weapons... while Germany, USSR, US and Japan did. do you believe that Japan or Germany during their war plans didnt take under account the reaction and the capabilities of Americans and Russians respectively? They knew what US and Russia are capable for... but they "were sure for the result" and they had a lot of confidence. That is how Turkey thinks today. "we're a super power.. we're sure for the results". The same with US in Vietnam. The same with USSR in Aphganistan. The same with US in Iraq and Aphganistan. The same with Israel during their last failed attack in Lebanon. The same with the failed US attack in Somalia. That is how history goes; whoever starts a conflict.. analyzes the data and opponents' dynamics.... feels confident.. and starts it. My father gave me a very good advice when I was younger; "You never know how a conflict will finish regardlless how it seems to be now". And that true. During Greek revolution against Ottoman Empire the odds were against Greece. 1000 rebels.. against an organized army... against Austria and all the Royal houses of Europe who didnt like changes in status quo of authorities.... and finally..... those same Royal houses show an opportunity in this revolution and suddenly they changed their plans. That is how it goes; you never know the result when you start something. Nothing is as it seems to be. Both Japan and Germany hoped for a quick victory and underestimated the gigantic economic and industrial power of their respective enemies. The Germans never thought that the Russians could take as much advantage of their size potential as they actually did since they believed that they would reach Moscow in a few months. The Japanese did not count on the American fleet recovering so quickly from its disaster at Pearl Harbor (in fact, today it has been argued that Japan at the time could have finished America had they not ended their attack after Pearl Harbor and retreating. In neither case is the Greece/Turkey situation any similar. Quite frankly, your fleet may be more powerful than the Turkish fleet at the moment, but it can change rather quickly in a state of war. If Turkey starts to put to use its massive population size, it could easily outfield the Greeks. The Greek side would have to hope for a quick and immediate victory... the problem is that you guys are nowhere near the potential of Nazi Germany.... they were specialists in war, worlds ahead of Russian capabilities at the time. Comparing yourself to Germans is a joke, a sick one. Germany recovered from complete destruction in a decade, you guys still feel 1922 and Papadopoulos. You guys couldnt even bring your s**t together under the watchful eye of the EU. US in Somalia only pulled out because it lost a few dozen troops and public support turned against the president. If the US had wanted to, had it wanted to keep sustaining losses, it could have turned the situation around... but the American public were not interested in losing the lives of white soldiers for helping some darkies. Learn a bit more about conflict... then make a reply. So you guys are counting on Turkey invading your land, flattening everything... and then losing because of either: 1) lack of public support for the war or 2) sustaining huge losses due to guerilla/mudjahadeen activity from a mountain location? In almost all of these scenarios, the US, Israel and Russia won the military victories, the problem is that they lost the political/economical. If your situation is anywhere near that of the Afghans/Lebanese/Iraqis... I will enjoy watching Athens burn to the ground... Turkey doesnt need to achieve such a victory, however... there would be no occupation in the instance of such a war. Turkey doesnt need to attack mainland Greece. And stop mentioning 1821 as if it was something that you guys have over the Turks. You guys had to free yourself with a major struggle from them... that is not in anyway a proud thing over them. They didnt lose in such a scenario anymore than you won. The fact is that you needed to free yourself from them. They had you. No war of liberation is a true victory over a power... its a war of liberation, thats it. The real examples of a Greco-Turkish conflict is 1897, in which Turkey won a serious and decisive victory that threatened to overturn many of Greece's previous accomplishments, and 1922, inwhich a Turkish state, occupied and attacked on nearly every front, managed to turn their case around and pummel the Greeks completely (not to mention the Armenians and the various other occupying powers) even when entirely outnumbered.
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 3, 2010 3:25:07 GMT -5
Afto einai pou sou leo sto allo post sxetika me paidia kai antres.. Afto pou kaneis tora einai poli paidiko. diawase ta post sou pou grafeis ligo antikeimenika kai tha deis oti echo dikaio....prepei na eisai poli eroteumenos me ton eauto sou...kai kala kaneis...alla mi to para kaneis kiolas.....giati meta archizei to priksimo ksereis...den echeis wgalei kai tipota sto kato kato...
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
|
Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 4, 2010 11:37:58 GMT -5
I had an amazing time my friends apartment is basically in one of the high blocks over looking the sea on Maltepe Sahil. So you can see the 3 Islands opposite. Terrace had a beautiful view.... woah!!! Il prolly go back in May again As for any impending war... If Greece attacks then Turkey shall defend herself, apart from that. what is Turkey going to do with Greece?
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 4, 2010 13:12:05 GMT -5
...den echeis wgalei kai tipota sto kato kato... san ti na vgalo? Kana spyri sto kolo?
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 5, 2010 3:26:16 GMT -5
Yes Vizier, also even if Turkey doesn't get into the EU, it won't matter. Turkey is in the G 14 and will be G 10th in the world. I know that the USA has less power over Turkey - aka Turkey didn't allow US troops in the war against IRaq and Turkey is smart and does not want to help the US very much. That's why Turkey has big trade with Europe, Russia, and Arabic countries. That's why it's leaning towards the EU. The EU could use the cheap labor b/c a high percentage of young people are in TUrkey. and it would increase employment in Turkey. Thks. You also added good points.
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 5, 2010 3:36:34 GMT -5
I had an amazing time my friends apartment is basically in one of the high blocks over looking the sea on Maltepe Sahil. So you can see the 3 Islands opposite. Terrace had a beautiful view.... woah!!! Il prolly go back in May again Maltepe Sahil is generally cool. However, on sunny weekends, it gets really crowded of cars and people.
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 6, 2010 20:31:30 GMT -5
Turks were attacked By Greeks, Italians, French, Armenians, Australians/British, and we won the war. Need I say more
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 6, 2010 20:37:36 GMT -5
comparing Greeks army to Turkish is like apples to oranges.
Did u know the # of Turkish army is? It is actually 1 Million officially but 3 Million unofficially.
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