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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 1, 2010 6:37:17 GMT -5
Athens protests over warships Ministry complains to Ankara as diplomats play down Turkish calls for scaling back procurements The Foreign Ministry yesterday sent Ankara a written complaint detailing 11 instances of provocative transits through Greek waters by Turkish warships as Greek diplomats played down calls by a Turkish government official for both countries to scale back their arms procurements. The memorandum sent to Ankara yesterday was accompanied by 11 maps showing the routes taken by Turkish warships crossing the Aegean in recent months. According to diplomats, the Turkish warships have exploited the right of foreign ships to “innocent passage” through the territorial waters of another country in a series of legal but ostensibly aimless trips. The latest such transit occurred last Wednesday when a Turkish corvette participating in an international exercise in the Aegean entered Greek national waters off the islands of Kea and Kythnos. Meanwhile, Athens played down comments by Egemen Bagis, Turkey’s chief negotiator with the European Union, suggesting that Greece and Turkey both scale back their arms procurements. On Monday, the International Herald Tribune quoted Bagis as saying: “It’s time to cut military expenditure throughout the world, but especially between Turkey and Greece. Neither Greece nor Turkey needs neither German nor French submarines.” The Greek Foreign Ministry did not release an official statement in response to Bagis’s comments, made last week during an interview in Brussels. But diplomats told Kathimerini that they believed the Turkish official’s comments were part of a public relations exercise aimed at improving Turkey’s image opposite the European Union, with whom it has been engaged in accession talks, which are flagging. One source at the Greek Foreign Ministry in Athens told Kathimerini that Bagis had raised the issue of procurements three times recently. “All government officials in Turkey, including Mr Bagis, are aware that Greece is bothered by the constant harassment, overflights and transits by Turkish warships,” the source said. “These activities constitute threats against our country against which we cannot but maintain readiness on all levels, including that of procurements,” the same source added. Apart from the provocations by the Turkish warships, Greek officials have also complained about a series of radar warnings sent by Turkish authorities to Greek and international aircraft participating in anti-immigration patrols in the eastern Aegean organized by Frontex, the European Union’s border-monitoring agency. www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100003_31/03/2010_116035
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Apr 1, 2010 6:40:15 GMT -5
I wonder...would we be bad guys if we hit one ship and let it sink in the bottom of Aegean near Kythnos and Kea...?
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 1, 2010 18:58:09 GMT -5
My personal belief is that sooner or later Greece and Turkey will have a full scale war. Turkish provocations is not something temporary or something light. Their official strategy is a need for 'vital space" like Hitler once mentioned. These provocations are constant and they escalating. As international history shotws.. war comes after. Turkey cannot enter EU with their "ala Turka" policies and they know it. Also they cannot change these poilicies. So, sooner or later they will start a war. My opinion is that this war should start the faster the better. The sooner it takes place, the sooner it will finish. We do the same mistake we did back in 1940 with Italians. They were provocative for years. They even shank one of our boats and despite we knew it.. we didnt react. Now after so many years.. we say that being in war with Italians was a wise decision. So, since history shows that after many provocations, war comes.. then why not start it now? We can not avoid it.. so lets start the party and who knows what the result of a party like this will be.. You never know.. Turks feel condfident.. but Italians felt confident too. Germans felt confident too. Japanese in Pearl Harbor felt confident too. So.. lets see if Turks deserve to be so confident. If it is for us to destroy economicaly our country by buying guns.. lets destroy it by using them. Thats my opinion.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Apr 1, 2010 20:33:46 GMT -5
I totally agree with you..... I am ready to gamble whatever it takes.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 1, 2010 21:44:23 GMT -5
Germans and Japanese lost to the higher power of numbers that America and Russia put out. The industrial capability of both was completely topped by the industrial capabilities of USSR and the US. You guys compare yourself to the economic and industrial power of these nations? The US was able to field dozens more ships to defeat the Japanese, who could not sustain the heavy losses as well, and the Soviet Union took 26 million to kill 8 million Germans.
Turkey not only has higher industrial capabilities, but higher numerical power as well... To put it simply: in a comparison between Turkey and Greece, Turkey is the US and Greece is Japan. 1000 deaths to the Turkish army is far less tough than a 1000 deaths for the Greek army.
Eitherway, Im not too sure, but I dont believe either country produces its own weapons... while Germany, USSR, US and Japan did.
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 2, 2010 1:02:35 GMT -5
My personal belief is that sooner or later Greece and Turkey will have a full scale war. Turkish provocations is not something temporary or something light. Their official strategy is a need for 'vital space" like Hitler once mentioned. These provocations are constant and they escalating. As international history shotws.. war comes after. Turkey cannot enter EU with their "ala Turka" policies and they know it. Also they cannot change these poilicies. So, sooner or later they will start a war. My opinion is that this war should start the faster the better. The sooner it takes place, the sooner it will finish. We do the same mistake we did back in 1940 with Italians. They were provocative for years. They even shank one of our boats and despite we knew it.. we didnt react. Now after so many years.. we say that being in war with Italians was a wise decision. So, since history shows that after many provocations, war comes.. then why not start it now? We can not avoid it.. so lets start the party and who knows what the result of a party like this will be.. You never know.. Turks feel condfident.. but Italians felt confident too. Germans felt confident too. Japanese in Pearl Harbor felt confident too. So.. lets see if Turks deserve to be so confident. If it is for us to destroy economicaly our country by buying guns.. lets destroy it by using them. Thats my opinion. I do not agree that war is inevitable, and I do not think that there will be a war sooner or later. In my opinion, increased number of Turkish activities in the Aegean sea is the message designed for the EU, not for Greece directly.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 2, 2010 2:42:49 GMT -5
it seems Greeks don't feel being in an economic crisis is enough, it should get worse thru war LOL some thoughtless comments here.
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 2, 2010 2:53:43 GMT -5
Personally I would support everything that would be able to put an end to the existence of Turkey. I believe in Russia...itogether with Armenia and the Kurds. Greece must be always open for war against Turkey...Constantinople is already now crying for a cleanup...lets screw the hairy mongols..
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 2, 2010 3:02:10 GMT -5
Im going to be in Istanbul this weekend I shall enjoy it thoroughly. Try attacking next weekend. Il visit Kadikoy, Moda, Maltepe(Sahil), Nisantasi and Bebek. I may then just go over to Taksim visit an old Greek taverna, with the wooden tables and stalls, drink some raki speak with some older greek grandad who will tell me stories, told to him by his grandfathers who lived happily with the Turks etc.... So please withhold your war till next week
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 2, 2010 3:16:18 GMT -5
You have the audacity to visit these people....who your country has always treated worse than animals...which you know...but nevertheless you want to visit Greeks in order to listen to stories about good old days between Greeks and Turks...in order to get horny and wet or why are you going to do that.....you have nothing lost there...leave them alone...
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Know yourself...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 2, 2010 3:29:44 GMT -5
Excuse me, but I also have Greek in my ancestral blood, so who are you to tell me who these people are. They are closer to me, than they can ever be to you. They also love to share their stories with others. You haven't the capacity to understand such complicated matters,concentrate on your kkk movement. Ah the beauty of living in Turkey.... u go and have a sausage and a beer. You have no place speaking about Turk and Greek matters, you are German
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 2, 2010 3:56:44 GMT -5
Im going to be in Istanbul this weekend I shall enjoy it thoroughly. Try attacking next weekend. Il visit Kadikoy, Moda, Maltepe(Sahil), Nisantasi and Bebek. I may then just go over to Taksim visit an old Greek taverna, with the wooden tables and stalls, drink some raki speak with some older greek grandad who will tell me stories, told to him by his grandfathers who lived happily with the Turks etc.... So please withhold your war till next week Sounds like a good plan for the weekend. Try the Greek tavern (meyhane) in Kadikoy (Victor Levi Sarap Evi).
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 2, 2010 4:22:34 GMT -5
You go to those places to enjoy these peoples' misery.....pathetic creatures.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 2, 2010 5:52:54 GMT -5
There is an amazing meyhane hidden in one of the taksim pasaj's not a lot of people know about it. Full of Greek and Armenian people, of course Turks go to Its a great place to meet people and hear amazing stories, while eating fantastic meze and drinking Il try to check out the one u said in kadikoy, but doubt il have time, next month Il probably do 5 days in Istanbul. Then it will be easier. Bored of Eskisehir n Ankara :s
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 2, 2010 5:59:21 GMT -5
There is an amazing meyhane hidden in one of the taksim pasaj's not a lot of people know about it. Full of Greek and Armenian people, of course Turks go to Its a great place to meet people and hear amazing stories, while eating fantastic meze and drinking Il try to check out the one u said in kadikoy, but doubt il have time, next month Il probably do 5 days in Istanbul. Then it will be easier. Bored of Eskisehir n Ankara :s Next time, do not miss out Kadikoy. I havent been to Eskisehir for many years. I plan to visit perhaps this spring. Is it a boring place?
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 2, 2010 6:02:42 GMT -5
oi mezedes tis maranan..
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 2, 2010 6:19:27 GMT -5
Germans and Japanese lost to the higher power of numbers that America and Russia put out. The industrial capability of both was completely topped by the industrial capabilities of USSR and the US. You guys compare yourself to the economic and industrial power of these nations? The US was able to field dozens more ships to defeat the Japanese, who could not sustain the heavy losses as well, and the Soviet Union took 26 million to kill 8 million Germans. Turkey not only has higher industrial capabilities, but higher numerical power as well... To put it simply: in a comparison between Turkey and Greece, Turkey is the US and Greece is Japan. 1000 deaths to the Turkish army is far less tough than a 1000 deaths for the Greek army. Eitherway, Im not too sure, but I dont believe either country produces its own weapons... while Germany, USSR, US and Japan did. do you believe that Japan or Germany during their war plans didnt take under account the reaction and the capabilities of Americans and Russians respectively? They knew what US and Russia are capable for... but they "were sure for the result" and they had a lot of confidence. That is how Turkey thinks today. "we're a super power.. we're sure for the results". The same with US in Vietnam. The same with USSR in Aphganistan. The same with US in Iraq and Aphganistan. The same with Israel during their last failed attack in Lebanon. The same with the failed US attack in Somalia. That is how history goes; whoever starts a conflict.. analyzes the data and opponents' dynamics.... feels confident.. and starts it. My father gave me a very good advice when I was younger; "You never know how a conflict will finish regardlless how it seems to be now". And that true. During Greek revolution against Ottoman Empire the odds were against Greece. 1000 rebels.. against an organized army... against Austria and all the Royal houses of Europe who didnt like changes in status quo of authorities.... and finally..... those same Royal houses show an opportunity in this revolution and suddenly they changed their plans. That is how it goes; you never know the result when you start something. Nothing is as it seems to be.
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 2, 2010 6:30:14 GMT -5
My personal belief is that sooner or later Greece and Turkey will have a full scale war. Turkish provocations is not something temporary or something light. Their official strategy is a need for 'vital space" like Hitler once mentioned. These provocations are constant and they escalating. As international history shotws.. war comes after. Turkey cannot enter EU with their "ala Turka" policies and they know it. Also they cannot change these poilicies. So, sooner or later they will start a war. My opinion is that this war should start the faster the better. The sooner it takes place, the sooner it will finish. We do the same mistake we did back in 1940 with Italians. They were provocative for years. They even shank one of our boats and despite we knew it.. we didnt react. Now after so many years.. we say that being in war with Italians was a wise decision. So, since history shows that after many provocations, war comes.. then why not start it now? We can not avoid it.. so lets start the party and who knows what the result of a party like this will be.. You never know.. Turks feel condfident.. but Italians felt confident too. Germans felt confident too. Japanese in Pearl Harbor felt confident too. So.. lets see if Turks deserve to be so confident. If it is for us to destroy economicaly our country by buying guns.. lets destroy it by using them. Thats my opinion. I do not agree that war is inevitable, and I do not think that there will be a war sooner or later. In my opinion, increased number of Turkish activities in the Aegean sea is the message designed for the EU, not for Greece directly. Personally I dont knoe the plans of Turkey. But i do know the concequences. 20-30 years for unstopable gun expenditures for Greece. The same expences for Turkey play no role because of the quality leaving standards Turkish society has. I mean.. a Turk in rural area.. or a poor Turk meaning huge percent of Turkish society does not care about Turkish arms expences. He is uneducated.. fed by nationalist stuff... and keeps sleaping on the ground happily dreaming the Ottoman Empire. The Greek citizen things tottaly different; 'lets finish with it so for us to move economically towards." So as you can see.. the ones who loose is the Greek society who has high standarts. Turkey knows that and that is why the keep pushing and pushing. Remember that. If Turkey will enter EU and if EU goes stronger... USA will 'push" Turkey to start a war with one member of EU. I believe is innevitable.
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 2, 2010 6:32:32 GMT -5
it seems Greeks don't feel being in an economic crisis is enough, it should get worse thru war LOL some thoughtless comments here. ...but that is what we're talking about; the economic crisis is a result of a non-existent war. Buying guns for a huge period should stop. You have an economic crisis same as the one of a war.. without the war! How smart is that?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 2, 2010 6:41:37 GMT -5
Eskisehir is not boring, but too many students, actually its great if u like clubbing lots of huge clubs, great sound systems, dj's from Europe. The city itself if very green, they have a canal, lots of parks and open spaces, nice shops, cafes etc....
I just went there too many times, thats why im bored
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