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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 9, 2010 2:33:58 GMT -5
Turkey hopes better Greek ties lower defense costsBy SELCAN HACAOGLU Turkey's Foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu said the new moves ultimately could help limit arms spending.As well, 10 key ministers, including those in charge of foreign and European Union affairs as well as energy and economy would meet at least twice a year, Davutoglu and Greece's Deputy Foreign Minister Dimitris Droutsas announced. The ministers said their armies would increase cooperation through joint training and conferences. The move is designed to encourage Turkish and Greek officers, who have for decades regarded each other as potential enemies, to work with each other. The countries have been at odds for years over flight procedures over the Aegean Sea border. For decades, their warplanes have often engaged in mock dogfights. "The measures will boost confidence between the two peoples and armies," Droutsas told a joint news conference with Davutoglu. Greece is suffering from a severe economic crisis and plans to cut defense spending in 2011 and 2012. Responding to a question over whether Turkey would follow Greece's lead, Davutoglu said that there would be no need for arms spending if the neighbors could build a "common future." "We have a vision and it is not based on mutual threat but on mutual interests," Davutoglu said. "If we manage to build a common future, there will be no need for defense spending." Davutoglu pointed out that his government has already reduced military spending, saying the government has spent more on education than arms in recent years. EU-member Greece supports Turkey's membership bid in the European Union, hoping that it will help solve territorial issues. The largest snag is the divided island of Cyprus where Turkey keeps about 40,000 troops. Turkey began EU membership talks in 2005, but negotiations on some policy have been frozen over Turkey's refusal to allow ships and planes from Cyprus to enter its ports and airspace, and the EU says Ankara must open its airspace to the EU member if it wants to get closer to membership itself. In return, Turkey insists on the lifting of what it says is the unofficial trade embargo on the breakaway Turkish Cypriot state in the north of the island, which was divided into a Greek Cypriot south and a Turkish Cypriot north following Turkey's 1974 invasion. www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9EUSIQ82.htm
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Post by chalkedon on Apr 9, 2010 5:51:02 GMT -5
i dont see any progress anytime soon. We only argue the continental shelf and the turks bring up all other kinds of issues to get more out of a deal.
Complete waste of time if you ask me....
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 9, 2010 6:11:57 GMT -5
Greece must ask for the Greek Muslims that were wrongly sent to Turkey in the 20's!!!!!!
Dont give Turkey any deals like this.Just trade in goods and tourism.
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Post by chalkedon on Apr 9, 2010 6:17:26 GMT -5
^^ hellboy we agreed on that deal. Ataturk wanted to exchange based on religion. We accepted. In any case, trade and tourism is good with them already. Business is even good...but thats it.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 9, 2010 7:54:51 GMT -5
Ok I think this is good. If we could work together more and lower military spending it would mean a better quality of life for some sections of society.
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 9, 2010 8:17:06 GMT -5
^^ hellboy we agreed on that deal. Ataturk wanted to exchange based on religion. We accepted. In any case, trade and tourism is good with them already. Business is even good...but thats it. No no no That was a stupid deal.You must also know that Turkey loves to steal white people. Those people who were shipped to Turkey were mostly ethnic Greeks.They belong to Greece.Satan knows how many of them have been raped already by those savages It's also really really bad because Greece and Greeks lost so much land in Anatolia and then now they loose BLOOD Greeks to those morons.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Apr 9, 2010 9:27:38 GMT -5
Hellboy,we don't want those Tourkous back, even if they are pure grandchildren of Alexander and Periklis, and speak the most ancient form of Greek language... they didn't have the guts to keep their religion against the Ottoman pressure and the privilleges they had as non-gaours... screw them. Read more about the role of the muslim Balkanians during the Ottoman yoke.
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 9, 2010 10:02:38 GMT -5
Turkey hopes better Greek ties lower defense costs Jannisary cut the crap. All the military expenditures in western Turkey are about "attack" and all military expenditures of Greece in Aegean are about "defence". Search and read about the military expences of the 2 countries and stop the crap. Nobody who wants peace gives 95% of his military budget for hovercrafts and "invading" military facilities .. So please.. cut the crap. We're grown ups here..
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 9, 2010 13:16:53 GMT -5
Hover-crafts and invading military facilities? What do you talk about, Basil? It is best to reduce military expenditures for both countries. Everyone gets the benefit.
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 10, 2010 2:30:15 GMT -5
Hover-crafts and invading military facilities? What do you talk about, Basil? It is best to reduce military expenditures for both countries. Everyone gets the benefit. You know very well what I'm talking about. There are 2 types of military expences; One has to do with 'defend' and one has to do with 'attack'. If 2 neigboring countries both spend for "defend".. there is no 'race' betwwen them.. means no huge expences. If one of the 2 neighbors spends on "attack".. the other neighbor must spend huge amounts on... "defence". In other words.. if Turkey was interested only to defend Turkey... and all the military expences were about it... then there would be no need for "race" between Greece and Turkey. The problem is that Turkey gives 95% of the budget for buying stuff that will help in a future war to 'attack" Greek islands... not to "defend' from the Greek islands. This way Greece always has to buy better and better "defending" methods for the islands. There can be no better ties between the 2 countries as far as one of them prepares for an "attack" and not for a "defence" in a future war.
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Post by logjiktek on Apr 10, 2010 7:33:01 GMT -5
Hellboy,we don't want those Tourkous back, even if they are pure grandchildren of Alexander and Periklis, and speak the most ancient form of Greek language... they didn't have the guts to keep their religion against the Ottoman pressure and the privilleges they had as non-gaours... screw them. Read more about the role of the muslim Balkanians during the Ottoman yoke. I wonder what the Ancient Greeks would think about you converting to Orthodoxism?
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 10, 2010 8:41:03 GMT -5
Hellboy,we don't want those Tourkous back, even if they are pure grandchildren of Alexander and Periklis, and speak the most ancient form of Greek language... they didn't have the guts to keep their religion against the Ottoman pressure and the privilleges they had as non-gaours... screw them. Read more about the role of the muslim Balkanians during the Ottoman yoke. What did Muslim Balkanians did during the Ottomania? You got to take them back,the Greek Muslims.It's the Greekness that matters
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 10, 2010 14:15:18 GMT -5
Hellboy,we don't want those Tourkous back, even if they are pure grandchildren of Alexander and Periklis, and speak the most ancient form of Greek language... they didn't have the guts to keep their religion against the Ottoman pressure and the privilleges they had as non-gaours... screw them. Read more about the role of the muslim Balkanians during the Ottoman yoke. I wonder what the Ancient Greeks would think about you converting to Orthodoxism? Quite a good point actually...
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 12, 2010 1:05:23 GMT -5
You know very well what I'm talking about. There are 2 types of military expences; One has to do with 'defend' and one has to do with 'attack'. If 2 neigboring countries both spend for "defend".. there is no 'race' betwwen them.. means no huge expences. Turkish Army is designed to defend the invasion attempts, not an army capable of deploying troops for an invasion of foreign land. You mix the Turkey with the USA, it seems. ;D Turkey's GDP and military spending is quite larger than Greece, but Turkey's weapon systems are not very different than what Greece has. Thus, Turkey's military spending to GDP ratio is quite low compared to Greece. Usually, Greece gets the arms first since Greece is richer than Turkey, and Greece has an easy access to the Western technologies as a permenant member of the Western club. Like hoovercrafts? Turkey does not have any hoovercrafts, Basil. Current Greek administration acts differently, and wants to have better ties with Turkey. That is peaceful thinking. Good relations with Turkey will be a step forward for eliminating arm race.
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 15, 2010 14:21:28 GMT -5
Janisary, you have no idea what kind of arms the Turkish Aegean "asker" has eh? If things were like that... Cyrpous occupation would never happen. You know very well who are patronized by that "Western Club" as the model country for Islam in the region.. dont you? Push EU to accept Turkey .. etc etc? We both know that the members of Western Club who sell guns mainly are US and UK. Now.. do you start to recall..? Current Greek adm is Papandreou.. a fully American kid who does whatever US tells him to do. Lately, they tell him to be queit a let Turkey to deploy as a Muslim example as a country. Of course this "be quiet" means.. share 50-50 the administration of the Aegean with Turks and... lets have peace. I agree with that.. if Turks share with us the administration of Black Sea, Straights and half Capadokia. In other words.. the same way it sounds logical Turkish ships to be behind Greek islands and in the middle of the Greek nation... then Greek ships and soldiers should be behind Smyrni and in the middle of the Turkish nation. Then it sounds fair..
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 16, 2010 1:44:14 GMT -5
Janisary, you have no idea what kind of arms the Turkish Aegean "asker" has eh? I do not think that Turkey is far superior in the Aegean region. Probably the one who attacks would suffer heavy losses. Invasion of Cyprus was almost 36 years ago, Basil. Things changed since then. Americans and the British do not want to sell arms as Turkey insists on technology tranfer and local production for every defense project. Sounds like a wise man. You can also control Black Sea and have troops around Izmir if you would say okey for a Greco-Turko confederation. Turkey can even open Hagia Sofia for Orthodox rutials. Of course, such confederation would result in some Turkish deployment in Greece too.
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Post by Kefalus on Apr 16, 2010 2:12:49 GMT -5
Ok. Will you become orthodox? ;D
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 16, 2010 3:28:29 GMT -5
Ok. Will you become orthodox? ;D I respect Orthodox people if you ask my opinion. However, I do not think that I will ever become one.
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Post by Kefalus on Apr 16, 2010 7:27:29 GMT -5
That's an onest opinion. I like that. I do not hate muslim. I respect every religion. I hate the extremists.
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Post by chalkedon on Apr 16, 2010 7:38:01 GMT -5
You can also control Black Sea and have troops around Izmir if you would say okey for a Greco-Turko confederation. Turkey can even open Hagia Sofia for Orthodox rutials. Of course, such confederation would result in some Turkish deployment in Greece too. Thats not a bad idea. A byzantine-ottoman alliance We would seriously kick ass that way...;D
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