wbb
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Posts: 733
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Post by wbb on Apr 16, 2010 5:25:19 GMT -5
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Post by vlaici on Aug 2, 2010 12:17:42 GMT -5
Salam alecum, wild bang boy! Keep on the good work!
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kun
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Posts: 52
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Post by kun on Mar 13, 2012 11:11:30 GMT -5
BS... Magyar were pagans then converted to Christianity, they were never muslims.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Mar 15, 2012 5:17:57 GMT -5
BS... Magyar were pagans then converted to Christianity, they were never muslims. everyone knows that but WBB didnt want to believe it. He wanted to tell the world hungary was a Muslim country lol he is a funny and somewhat delusional character
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wbb
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Posts: 733
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Post by wbb on Aug 13, 2012 11:47:34 GMT -5
Really?, o you poor thing, you need to study the history more harder instead of following your dogmatic philosophy called islamophobia. The Magyar muslims were the people who contributed alot for Arpad and his tribe, they fought for Arpad against the filthy Khazars and many other enemies of the Magyars when they arrived to Karpat medence. You are even carrying an Arpad sav, which invented by no one other than the magyar muslims for Arpad. Yes there was magyar pagans, but thats havent been proven if they were in majority, however i dont deny that there wasnt any magyar pagans, there was but denying magyar muslims is quite ridiculous. Oszki bacsi, do you know really how many hungary there was? several, you think hungary was just basically in karpat medence and not somewhere else as well? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The Magyars were on the border with the islamic caliphate, this is proven by history but your philosophy hasnt. lol ;D
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Post by oszkarthehun on Aug 14, 2012 4:40:23 GMT -5
Welcome back WBB , long time no see man ... where you been ? Have you heard anything from Yeni ? Magyar Muslims ? ya sure there was some Muslims amongst the 7 to 10 Hungarian tribes ... but I doubt ever was a majority amongst Hungarians that settled in Europe...well just look at the oldest Christian Churches in Hungary and compare to oldest Mosques .. we see Mosques only go back to Ottoman incursions era. Before that look at older Magyar Rovas and Szekely religions . Really?, o you poor thing, you need to study the history more harder instead of following your dogmatic philosophy called islamophobia. The Magyar muslims were the people who contributed alot for Arpad and his tribe, they fought for Arpad against the filthy Khazars and many other enemies of the Magyars when they arrived to Karpat medence. You are even carrying an Arpad sav, which invented by no one other than the magyar muslims for Arpad. Yes there was magyar pagans, but thats havent been proven if they were in majority, however i dont deny that there wasnt any magyar pagans, there was but denying magyar muslims is quite ridiculous. Oszki bacsi, do you know really how many hungary there was? several, you think hungary was just basically in karpat medence and not somewhere else as well? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The Magyars were on the border with the islamic caliphate, this is proven by history but your philosophy hasnt. lol ;D
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Post by bowandarrow on Aug 14, 2012 6:26:17 GMT -5
We see Mosques only go back to Ottoman incursions era.
Exactly.
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wbb
Moderator
Posts: 733
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Post by wbb on Aug 17, 2012 4:18:42 GMT -5
Nothing much i been busy in my life, working and study at TAFE. Also i go on Facebook often, because there's more magyar christians and muslims there, that's another reason why i've been inactive.
Nah not for 2 years. Last time i heard from him was in Erepublik social game, when yeni and i were playing ehungary, since then when the new version of erepublik came out, i stopped playing.
Im gonna link a website about Magyar muslims and it's history, written by a turkish historian, he's a quite famous in hungary especially some hungarian nationalist website even posted his theory in it. His theory is quite interesting, he knows more about magyar muslims than i do.
That is true, but im talking about magyars before they settled in karpat medence, of course there was magyar muslims settled through out the hungary and they were majority in some states of hungary before Christianization came into effect.
There was some pagan magyars thats true, however im not sure if rovas and szekely religion was magyar, its more like Hunnic and Avaric. The Huns and Avars were already in Hungary before the arrival of Magyars. If we talk about hungarians practicing paganism that would be the Huns and Avars but Magyars which is the latest hungarians were more like turkic and muslims or even both.
As you can on the map i posted, the Magyars were around the border of the islamic caliphate, there's 1-100% chance they can into contact with islam. The Avars of course different story.
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Post by uz on Aug 17, 2012 11:24:07 GMT -5
lol
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Post by hellboy87 on Aug 17, 2012 12:41:13 GMT -5
wbb,the ethnic Hungarians of Hungary do not descend from the Magyars or Finno-Ungrians,at least most of them.They are indigenous to the land.
Sure,there may have been Hungarians who converted to Islam in Hungary ages ago and that there were Magyars(real Magyars) who were Muslims prior to arriving in what is now Hungary.But I doubt it that THE MAGYARS were a Muslim group.
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Post by uz on Aug 17, 2012 13:06:28 GMT -5
What is this guy talking about really, Islam is a religion not some identity or nationality and certainly no "civilization".
Magyars were pagans before it all.
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Post by hellboy87 on Aug 17, 2012 14:22:23 GMT -5
Pagans or shamans?
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Post by leprofesional on Aug 17, 2012 15:40:16 GMT -5
everyone was pagan before it all...
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kun
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Posts: 52
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Post by kun on Aug 18, 2012 6:25:43 GMT -5
There are no records of Magyar muslims during the Honfoglalas (conquest of the homeland), this is just romantic dreaming by a few individuals who want a connection with Islam. BTW, what do you mean by "REAL MAGYAR"?
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wbb
Moderator
Posts: 733
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Post by wbb on Aug 18, 2012 7:03:13 GMT -5
Hellboy, your exactly right about this comment. The current Hungarians are mostly magyarized people, only 20% are real magyars. Not even Cumans or Paloc are real magyars but they do have more magyar origin than any of those magyarized people. The magyar gypsies do have magyar origin as well because they inter-mixed with real magyars and they lived in hungary for over 500 years, they are much more older than any magyarized people. That why magyarized people often get very jealous of the gypsies, cause gypsies are more magyars than them. Its very common for real magyars to marry with gypsies because of their shepherd culture compare those magyarised who live in cities. The real magyars arent city people, they normally live in mountains, villages and pastoral lands, very similar to the vlach. Their culture are even more stricter than city people.
Alot of real magyars before they arrived to europe were muslims, they originated from Volga Bulgaria and other countries where islam was dominant. This is way before the ottomans. Many magyar muslims were merchants, and mercenaries for Arpad.
Uz, where did i say that islam is a nationality? Nowhere.
Not all magyars were pagans, infact some of them were. The Huns, Avars, Scythians, Jasz and all other indigenous people of hungary were pagans, the magyars mostly wasnt pagans.
Well that is according to your philosophical views called scepticism not being supported by any real evidence other than a dogmatic pseudo-science on magyar's history invented by far rights movement or worse.
I mean it by original magyars from asia, not those magyarised magyars who converted to magyar identity without having any genetical relation to them during the process of magyarization. Many people who were magyarized arent real magyars, they were slavs, germans, latinic, french, walloons, jews, gypsies, greeks, etc,etc. Of course there are gypsies who have real magyar genetic on them due to inter-marriage but many of them were magyarised also.
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wbb
Moderator
Posts: 733
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Post by wbb on Aug 18, 2012 8:06:35 GMT -5
even Armenians were magyarised, there are about 74-30,000 armenians currently living in hungary today, and many of them are very assimilated into the hungarian society, they even lost their mother tounge and speak hungarian now. Even their name was magyarised, one such example "magyarjan", marozsan. Ferenc Szalasi, Erika Marozsan, Gabor Agardy, Erno Kiss, Vilmos Lazar, Miklos Horthy, are few example of those armenians or people of armenian origin who became magyarised.
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kun
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Post by kun on Aug 18, 2012 14:58:46 GMT -5
I think this explains it well
Hungarian Mythology I God And His Helpers - Cwnet users.cwnet.com/millenia/myths.htm
Slavs, Armenians, Germans etc were assimilated centuries ago not Magyarized, This term Magyarization is false. When you speak of "real" Hungarians you can say that of every nationality. There are no pure ethnic groups in Europe, are there REAL Serbs, Romanians etc. of course not.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Aug 20, 2012 18:25:15 GMT -5
Im not sure why you think Gypsies are more Magyar than other Hungarians and I cant take this seriously at all and have never seen any such evidence, in fact gypsies are mostly following there own culture thats why they are still gypsies after all these years and not already assimilated like other groups assimilated such as ... Cumans, Jasz, and Khazar/kabars.... do u know that maybe just 200 years ago Jasz and some Cumans were still speaking their own languages in Hungary. Its very hard to say exactly with certainty where the language givers ...(Magyars) hailed from originally ... but again there isnt any serious evidence to say most of them were Muslim and as has been said they were by majority most likely some type of Pagans and its likely amongst them were already smaller groups of Christians , Muslims and even possibly Jew's ...eg Khazars. again this claim remains unfounded. All countries change over time , all Hungarians are Magyars due to the fact that all have historicaly had ancestors that were either assimilated and or combination of assimilated and with some blood that contains original or early Magyar/Hungarian stock...and dont forget our Magyar/Hungarian nation spans more than 1000 years as a recognised nation so we are all historically-ancestorally part of the Hungarian ethnogenesis and we have always referred to ourselves as Magyars...Hungarian's is how foreigners have reffered to us. Our neighbours are not pure either ... in fact both Avar and Cuman/Kun blood went deeply into eastern europe and balkans While the Cumans were gradually absorbed into eastern European populations, their trace can still be found in placenames as widespread as the city of Kumanovo in the Northeastern part of the Republic of Macedonia; a Slavic village named Kumanichevo in the Kostur (Kastoria) district of Greece, which was changed to Lithia after Greece obtained this territory in the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest, Comãneºti in Romania, a village of Kumane in Serbia, Comana in Dobrogea (also Romania) and the small village of Kumanite in Bulgaria. Debrecen in Hungary.As the Mongols pushed westwards and devastated their state, most of the Cumans fled to the Bulgarian Empire as they were major military allies. The Bulgarian Tsar Ivan-Asen II (who was descended from Cumans) settled them in the southern parts of the country, bordering the Latin Empire and the Thessallonikan Despotate.[citation needed] Those territories are in present-day Turkish Europe, Bulgaria and the Republic of Macedonia.[citation needed] The Cumans also settled in Hungary and had their own self-government there in a territory that bore their name, Kunság, that survived until the 19th centuryen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuman_peopleWhatever the origin of the initial group of nomadic warriors, the Avars rapidly intermixed with the Slavic population on the lower Danube basin and Pannonian Plain.[16] Slavic was likely used as a lingua franca within the khaganate amongst the disparate peoples. According to Pál Lipták the early Avar anthropological material was almost exclusively Europid in the 7th century, while grave-goods indicated Middle and Central Asian parallels.[20] On the other hand there were cemeteries dated for the 8th century that contained Mongoloid elements among others. He analysed the Avar Period population of the Danube-Tisza midland region and stated that 80% of them was of Europid character. Avar material culture is found south to Macedonia. Initially, the Avars and their subjects lived separately, except for Slavic and Germanic women who were married to Avar men. Eventually, the Germanic and Slavic peoples were included in the Avaric social order and culture, which itself was Persian- Byzantine in fashion.[21] Scholars have identified a fused, Avar-Slavic culture, characterized by ornaments such as half moon-shaped earrings, Byzantine-styled buckles, beads, and bracelets with horn-shaped ends.[21] Paul Fouracre notes, “[T]here appears in the seventh century a mixed Slavic-Avar material culture, interpreted as peaceful and harmonious relationships between Avar warriors and Slavic peasants. It is thought possible that at least some of the leaders of the Slavic tribes could have become part of the Avar aristocracy. Whatever the 'original' languages of the various Avar groups, Slavic was adopted as the dominant language of the Avar khaganateen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Avars
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