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Post by thracian08 on Jun 2, 2010 12:45:38 GMT -5
Totally agree Toski. I think the reason the commandos did it is b/c they don't like Turkey mediating with Iran about the nukes.
Israel wants to bomb Iran - we all know that. There is no proof Iran wants to make nuclear weapons. Israel doesn't like Iran b/c it is a strong country in the middle east independent of Arabs dictators and puppets controlled by the UsA. Israel has Nukes.
Additionally, Turkey hasn't had a war with Iran for hundreds of years - and it wouldn't be good for Israel/USA to bomb Iran for Turkey either.
Also, Turkey is regionally very strong ; with Greece, Russia, Iran, Iraq, and Syria - all of its neighbors nowadays. It is also being influential in the Balkans.
Turkey knows how to play its cards well. ATaturk got Russian weapons b/c he played the socialist card, he got money from Indian Muslims, and others.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 2, 2010 16:04:18 GMT -5
Whether or not Iran wants to go nuclear is not an issue. The setting up of a powerplant is inevitably the first step towards going totally nuclear, and this cannot be stopped. Nuclear proliferation has started since 1945 and will continue now, the larger powers cannot contain this, as much as they may like it. Not to mention that there is an inherent inequality about it: Israel has developed a nuclear program, illegally, and yet Iran is not supposed to? Once you create double standards you cannot be shocked when the other side retaliates.
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Post by vinjak on Jun 2, 2010 17:01:21 GMT -5
innocent civilians
Yep I seen the vid showing the innocent civilians beating the fuk out of the commandos before they even stepped on to the ship..I also saw the paintball guns being fired to no effect.
Oh and I also saw on the vid the activists who stood back and did not participate in the beatings they are the ones that are unharmed and have been deported, I saw some of them yelling Allahu Akbar as they got on the buses unharmed.
Hmm I guess those 4 i saw on the video with poles beating the fuk out of a soldier while he was down should have been asked politely to stop ?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 2, 2010 17:13:04 GMT -5
ARIS PAPADOKOSTOPOULOS, GREECE Aris Papadokostopoulos was aboard the Free Mediterranean, travelling behind the Mavi Marmara and carrying mainly Greek and Swedish activists.
"The Turkish ship [the Mavi Marmara] was in front of us... on which there was a terrible raid from the air and from the sea and from everywhere, with shooting.
Mr Papadokostopoulos said that aboard the other boats, commandos beat activists but nobody was gravely injured.
He said no one put up resistance on the Free Mediterranean, which was carrying a cargo of wheelchairs, building material and medical and pharmaceutical aid.
"Some people were hit by clubs and electric shocks. During their interrogation, many of them were badly beaten in front of us," he said.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 2, 2010 17:14:07 GMT -5
DIMITRIS GIELALIS, GREECE Activist Dimitris Gielalis, who had been aboard the Sfendoni, was among six Greeks who returned home on Tuesday.
"Suddenly from everywhere we saw inflatables coming at us, and within seconds fully equipped commandos came up on the boat," he said.
"They came up and used plastic bullets, we had beatings, we had electric shocks, any method we can think of, they used."
Mr Gielalis said the boat's captain was beaten for refusing to leave the wheel, and had sustained non-life-threatening injuries, while a cameraman filming the raid was hit with a rifle butt in the eye.
"Of course we weren't prepared for a situation of war," he said.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 2, 2010 17:15:10 GMT -5
Vinjak you saw the video the Israelis wanted you to see....
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 2, 2010 17:21:52 GMT -5
Just saw on the news, the Isrealis gave the injured passangers water that contained a cancerous substance.
This is outragious...
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Post by thracian08 on Jun 2, 2010 17:37:03 GMT -5
Actually the Iran issue is why Israel killed those people. Sure there are double standards, however Israel doesn't want a nuclear Iran.
There are even theories that the Israelis killed the activists on the ships is b/c they want people to become radical in Turkey. Then they want to play the Islamist game on Turkey, and then they want to tell the world that Turkey shouldn't be listened to about Iran.
All the Israeli gov't does is spread propaganda.
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Post by thracian08 on Jun 2, 2010 17:41:54 GMT -5
Vinjak u are very ignorant. The Israelis even before entering the ship, launched grenades onto the ships from their helicopters!
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Post by vinjak on Jun 2, 2010 18:09:17 GMT -5
Vinjak u are very ignorant.
Maybe I am but I would say that what happened on the "Free Mediterranean" would have been directly influenced by the events on the "Sfendoni"
I mean cmon folks have you not seen the footage or are you choosing to ignore the activists dragging soldiers off the heli lines and beating the fuk out of them with poles ? how do you think a military would respond to this ? with polite invites to stop ?
Vinjak you saw the video the Israelis wanted you to see....
Ok but the footage I saw was not of peaceful protesters but violent activists taking on a military group... They where beating the hell out of Soldiers the soldiers then had every right to fire.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jun 2, 2010 20:57:32 GMT -5
The soldiers had not right to go on those ships. They were in international waters...but as always Israel breaks the rules by arguing that even if they were out of their jurisdiction and they suspect something is up they will go after it.
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Post by vinjak on Jun 2, 2010 22:58:59 GMT -5
I dont know Maritime law so I cannot argue...but what I do know is that in the military if your unit as a whole or individual are in mortal danger you must respond within the parameters of your orders. You can all blame the government but you cannot blame the soldiers they where being beaten with poles and some activists where armed with knives that is enough to warrant deadly force. Why is nobody laying the blame on the militant activists ? in all your eyes can these activists beat and kill soldiers at will just because they where boarded ?....i dont get it
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Post by alb12345 on Jun 2, 2010 22:59:17 GMT -5
What Israel did is a state terror act but no one can touch them they have been getting away with murders far to long only germans know how to deal with jews(Gas Juden ) arabs are not a match for jews so far israel have won wars against; egypt, syria, jordan ,lebanon and iraq, all together a total population of over 150 milions the jews on the other side today are 7.5 milions, next in the list is Iran who have said that will wipe Israel from the world map we will see but for sure jews are favorite to win if any war in the future.
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Post by alb12345 on Jun 2, 2010 23:14:53 GMT -5
vinjak serbia is the only country in europe that did not even condemn the raids and killing of innocent people on international waters. Pls prove me wrong with any link from the serb goverment if that not the case then Serbien muss sterbien!
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 2, 2010 23:42:21 GMT -5
I dont know Maritime law so I cannot argue...but what I do know is that in the military if your unit as a whole or individual are in mortal danger you must respond within the parameters of your orders. You can all blame the government but you cannot blame the soldiers they where being beaten with poles and some activists where armed with knives that is enough to warrant deadly force. Why is nobody laying the blame on the militant activists ? in all your eyes can these activists beat and kill soldiers at will just because they where boarded ?....i dont get it The entire situation was mishandled and the soldiers there suffered as a result. The entire blockade of Gaza is a humanitarian crisis and breaks so many international protocols that it is ridiculous to even argue the Israeli side. A people are being starved and terrorized, punished as a whole for the actions of some cells within it. It is collective punishment on the part of Israel similar to Nazi collective punishment in their occupied territories. The boat was bringing aid to the population, what did the Israelis find besides wood, tools and some knives?
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Post by vinjak on Jun 3, 2010 0:12:59 GMT -5
vinjak serbia is the only country in europe that did not even condemn the raids and killing of innocent people on international waters.
In a statement issued in Belgrade on Tuesday, the ministry condemned “the excessive use of force and urged restraint and compliance with international law principles”. www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=06&dd=02&nav_id=67530The boat was bringing aid to the population, what did the Israelis find besides wood, tools and some knives? I dont know but didnt they allow 100 ships with humanitarian objectives to pass ? it was only five that they would not let through. And those five announcent they where not humanitarian but activists, as announced by Greta Berlin who made it clear with this statement from Cyprus "We're not trying to be a humanitarian mission."
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 3, 2010 0:46:23 GMT -5
Greta was declaring the fact that they were openly challenging Israel's altogether illegal blockade and thus expected to be intercepted. They knew that their mission would fail. It aimed at bringing international attention to the issue. Rosa Parks in the US defied segregation by demanding to sit in the front of the bus and was arrested. The move was organized by the NAACP who knew what the results would be.
Same here.
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bato2
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Post by bato2 on Jun 3, 2010 2:23:55 GMT -5
A barbaric act indeed but i think Turkey knew what was coming.Is not first time Israel acting in inhumane way.Thos e boats were send like lambs to the butcher because Isralel was warning Turkey many times not to allow the flotilla(who they claimed were linked to Hamas and Al-Kaida). I think is just a fight for power between two big players: Turkey and Israel. Watching closely the recent events Israel is not very happy with Turkey shifting the center of power from Tel-Aviv to Ankara. Turkey is been a key player recent years. And is looking for chances to spread the influence. Let's not forget the latest deal with Iranians for nuclear fuel...Israel wasn't very happy with it. Having a idealist clown like Obama in the top of the pyramid who has no vision of the World balance and World policy other players will fill the gap like Turkey, Russia, China and Brasil. I was waiting for Obama a more harsh criticism for such action but instead i heard just a vague condolence. Turkey with this stone he killed two birds..Isolated more Israel with the rest of the world and weakened his position in the region but in other hand he rise his position in muslim world and entire region who are growing frustration with Israel and US policy. www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3898354,00.html
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Post by Red Brigade on Jun 3, 2010 9:10:27 GMT -5
Last December Israel killed more than 1000 Palestinians, including a school with children, and none of the present whippers said anything. Now they are moaning because a bunch of "activists", half of them on the payroll of dubious organizations and governments, get shot.
The only thing that sickens me is that they took children on the boats to make it look more tragic.
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jun 3, 2010 10:51:03 GMT -5
Ok to be fair, the protestors weren't very peaceful when the Israelis boarded the ship illegally. The Israelis didn't have a right to board, the people were in chaos, I mean we all know israels human rights history do we not? Of course the people tried to attack them before they were attacked. I mean how did they know the guns were paintball guns? Now on the other hand, having seen many of the Turkish protestors, i would have to agree that many of them 'look' as though they could have been extremists, yet the point is were they on a terrorist mission? They were just trying to take aid to the Palestinians (who I have a whole different opinon about) My view, this was all preplanned, Israel was duped into this.. there will be a new world order .... I don't wana say anything more
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