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Post by kartadolofonos on Jul 15, 2010 11:52:24 GMT -5
Greece to press Karagiozis claims A Foreign Ministry spokesman said yesterday that Athens will press its claims on a shadow-puppet theater tradition that the United Nations cultural watchdog UNESCO has deemed to be part of Turkey’s cultural heritage. “Karagiozis is an inextricable part of our culture,” Grigoris Delavekouras told reporters. The spokesman invoked the UNESCO convention on “intangible cultural heritage,” noting that it “enables neighboring countries to access the same commodity.” Karagiozis – Greek for the Turkish “Karagoz,” meaning “black-eyed” – is the central character in a popular shadow-puppet theater . The Greek show, which features a cast of social stereotypes and is set loosely during the Turkish occupation of Greece, Karagiozis is a hunchbacked con man who makes a living bamboozling Turkish officials. Karagioizis is also a common byword for “clown” in the Greek vernacular. The Greek Theater of Shadows, one of the few forums for enthusiasts that continues to stage Karagiozis shows, yesterday issued a press release criticizing the government for its delayed reaction to the “Turkification” of Karagiozis, noting that UNESCO had placed Karagoz on its list of intangible cultural elements, associating it with Turkey, last September. “We wrote to the Culture Ministry last year, describing the matter as one of national importance and seeking its support... but, instead of sensitivity and interest, we faced total indifference,” the press release said. The theater group called on the government to subsidize Karagiozis performances and promote the Greek shows, and their history, to foreign visitors.
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Post by thracian08 on Jul 15, 2010 17:21:06 GMT -5
well Karagoz is a Turkish puppet. It's not a Greek thing But since Greeks and Turks lived together for a long time, of course there will be common things ! People influence one another. Even the name is Turkish, Kara-black, goz - eye.
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 15, 2010 17:32:59 GMT -5
no matter if its turkish or greek in origin...Greece should appeal against this decision...dont leave anything to the mongols without a struggle.
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Post by thracian08 on Jul 15, 2010 18:00:42 GMT -5
u sound pathetic .......... and a hypocrite too!
U get angry at "Former Yugoslavs" naming their country Macedonians, yet, you want to lay claim to Karagoz and Hacivat as Greek ??!
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Post by kartadolofonos on Jul 15, 2010 19:05:35 GMT -5
not everything is ours .... you want to lay claim to Karagiozi and Barba Giorgos as Turk ??It is difficult to imagine that a Turk, Jew or Armenian was the creator of Karagiozis, especially one inspired by the life of two Greeks, Hadziavatis and Mavromatis. The Karagiozi are the Greek shadow puppet theaters that are descendants of the ancient shadow puppets of the orient, through the Byzantine and Ottoman empires. The central figure is Karagiozi himself who supposedly represents the struggle of the Greek people, particularly under the yoke of Turkish occupation.
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Post by thracian08 on Jul 16, 2010 12:51:52 GMT -5
wow, you guys really changed the story to suit yourselves! What Greeks are you talking about?
Hacivat & Karagöz: These are the two folk heroes of Karagöz shadow-puppet theater. The language they use, the way they look at life and the class they represent are never the same. With these clashes and also a wide range of folk characters, they play out a rich social and political satire.
There are different views about it coming to Turkey. One of the views is that the plays such as "ember armlet" and "dream tent" known in Middle East are shadow plays and they’ve been brought to Anatolia during migrations. Other view is that the shadow play has come into Turkey after Yavuz Sultan Selim, who had conquered Egypt in 1517, had brought the shadow play artists to Turkey. Karagöz had become one of the most enjoyed entertainment methods of public, which mainly focused on public types beginning from the 18 th. century. Karagöz is played depending on the talent of an artist. Moving the design on curtain, voicing them, dialects or imitations are all made by the artist.The subjects of Karagöz plays are funny elements. Double meanings, exaggerations, verbal plays, imitating accents are the main elements of the comedy. Legend has it that these two types were construction laborers who worked on the building of the Ulucami in Bursa in the 14th century . They spent most of their time clowning around and stirring up trouble by keeping the other workers from working. The sultan, who was upset with the delay of the construction of Ulucami, had them executed. People felt sorry for them and have continued to remember their jokes. It is from these that the Karagöz theater derives.
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 16, 2010 13:15:36 GMT -5
Karagiozis is a Turk thing. In Grecee it came from Greeks from Asia Minor with Greek characters. No need for discussion about this issue.... It belongs originally to Turks... whom they took it from China etc etc. In general is an Asian thing..
ps.By the way, I never liked it when I was a small child....
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Post by emily33 on Jul 16, 2010 13:23:56 GMT -5
^I agree
I never liked it either. It was creepy!
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 16, 2010 15:45:27 GMT -5
I liked it.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jul 16, 2010 16:43:10 GMT -5
Karagiozis is a Turk thing. In Grecee it came from Greeks from Asia Minor with Greek characters. No need for discussion about this issue.... It belongs originally to Turks... whom they took it from China etc etc. In general is an Asian thing.. ps.By the way, I never liked it when I was a small child.... Karagiozis was brought to Greece 150 years ago, by a Patrinos. The style was turkish, but it was changed to fit Greek society, just like cinema, that even if it was invented in West(i don't know which country exactly) it became a medium of art for every nation. Karagiozis symbolized the poor Greek who with cunning, smartness managed to survive from the bad vezir who lived in the saray nearby. The characters were representative of the types you could find in 19th century Greece, the brave-innocent barba-Yiorgos the traditional Greek shepherd, Nionios the Zacynthinos guy with the song-like accent, Hatziavatis the obsequious Greek, Veli-Gekas the Tourkalvanos dervendaga who is the barking dog of the saray etc etc It was a nice innocent way of kids entertainment, better than a dumb american tv comedy....
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Jul 16, 2010 17:03:09 GMT -5
Probably it is originally something Asian, and brought to Anatolia by the Turks as Basil states. In my opinion, it is as Turkish as much as it is Greek. After all, it is some form of art enjoyed by both peoples in the past.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 16, 2010 20:06:22 GMT -5
Plus I use it to insult people.... ;D
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Post by Anittas on Jul 16, 2010 22:35:17 GMT -5
no matter if its turkish or greek in origin...Greece should appeal against this decision...dont leave anything to the mongols without a struggle. Hmmm... Mongols? Turks are whiter than you are.
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 17, 2010 2:13:03 GMT -5
I dont know if mongols are whiter than I am...but Im definitely whiter than your granddaddy...
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Post by Anittas on Jul 17, 2010 6:11:09 GMT -5
Of course you're not. He has light-blue eyes and pale skin. You have dark eyes and dark skin.
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 17, 2010 6:29:29 GMT -5
What do I have?^^
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Post by Anittas on Jul 17, 2010 6:36:04 GMT -5
You have dark eyes, dark hair and dark skin. And no, not like Sean Connery.
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 17, 2010 6:42:30 GMT -5
Wtf no...you are wrong.
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Post by macmako on Jul 17, 2010 7:36:11 GMT -5
Wtf no...you are wrong. Mongol!!
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Post by Kastorianos on Jul 17, 2010 7:54:34 GMT -5
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