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Post by toskaliku on Oct 10, 2010 23:01:18 GMT -5
I guess this is a very common and alltoo typical question for the ex-communist countries. However, do you feel that something in Albania will be forever dead with the passing of communism?
It is probably as a result of not having lived through but whenever I think of the communist times; whenever I see the style of clothing, the way people kept their hair, the way they posed. Whenever I saw daily life... there seems to a sort of idealization of the times.
I asked my parents also, and they admit that as horrible as it was... there was something that has since been lost both in Albania and in subsequent America afterwards. Perhaps a sense of community and beloning (as my mom worded it) that has since been loss in the mess of capitalism.
What are your thoughts
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Post by zoti on Oct 10, 2010 23:17:37 GMT -5
I guess this is a very common and alltoo typical question for the ex-communist countries. However, do you feel that something in Albania will be forever dead with the passing of communism? It is probably as a result of not having lived through but whenever I think of the communist times; whenever I see the style of clothing, the way people kept their hair, the way they posed. Whenever I saw daily life... there seems to a sort of idealization of the times. I asked my parents also, and they admit that as horrible as it was... there was something that has since been lost both in Albania and in subsequent America afterwards. Perhaps a sense of community and beloning (as my mom worded it) that has since been loss in the mess of capitalism. What are your thoughts We lost our soul for sure. I don't have the time to reply right now but I think by and large we were better off during communism.
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Post by plisbardhi on Oct 10, 2010 23:35:20 GMT -5
Fact is Albania would be better off had it never been Envero-communist. The chaos in 97 should never have reached the level it did. Communism wore down the culture, traditions and mentality to make that possible. That would never have happened in Kosova for example.
But ofcouse there is a nostalgia for somethings, even among Kosovars and other ex-yugo Albs. Communism brought Albanians into the modern age. Its the same type of nostalgia Americans have for pre-1960s America. Nothing special.
But I honestly believe western style democracy is not suitable to Albanians. Centralized power suits our people more I believe.
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Post by toskaliku on Oct 10, 2010 23:41:41 GMT -5
Albanians have went from one radical system to another and it has hurt us as a people. e went from being a people made up lose confederations to the most totalitarian and centralized state in the world and then to being anarchy or loose government... one shockwave after another.
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rex362
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Pellazg
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Post by rex362 on Oct 11, 2010 9:43:09 GMT -5
from an outsider looking in ....
un them se u umbt patriotizmin 60% ne nje dit now you bounce back ,blame it on uncertainty
ne shqipot te yugoslavis nuku e kishim komunitsen te rend only in name ...edhe kur ju shekonim me televezi (me te vidhur) neve bejshim krenar vetem se ju shekonim (1970's)
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Post by zoti on Oct 11, 2010 11:11:58 GMT -5
Ne humbem dinjitetin si njerez kur ra komunizmi. Tani ne Evrope njihemi thjesht si kafsh qe kane dalur nga kopshti zoologjik dhe qe merremi vetem me drog, prostitucion dhe hajdutllik. Kemi 20 vjet qe na kane bere embargo si popull se nuk na duan.
Na rrofshin parate qe kane 2% e politkaneve dhe biznesemeneve qe jane njerez te degjeneruar dhe s'kane as din e as iman. Ne kohen e Hoxhes mbaj mend qe nje magazinier (someone in charge of a warehouse) ne Tirane e varen ne litar sepse kishte vjedhur 10 milione leke. Sot mendjen e kane te gjithe si te vjedhin sa me shume dhe s'ka konsekuenca.
Mos ta flas per moralin qe jemi shthurur fare is shoqeri. Biznesmenet qijne kurva left and right, gocat zejne dashnore qe 13-14 vjec, te ecesh rrugeve te Tiranes eshte sikur te ecesh mdisi nje bordello gjigante. Nuk te shef me njeri se cfare njeriu je po sa leke ke.
Tirana ka marre fund se eshte mbushur plot me fshatare. I morri Tiranes gati 50 vjet per te krijuar nje fare shtrese intelektuale dhe njefare qyteterimi qe sot nuk ekziston me. Tani ne jemi shtet ne emer sepse ne te vertete jemi thjesht nje sad mockery of what a state is supposed to be.
Shqiperia sot eshte nje makabritet qe karakterizohet nga vrasje, bixhoz, kurvllik, hajdutllik, poshtersi dhe maskarallik. Sa me shume te vjedhesh aq me i zoti je. Njeriu i ndershem s'ka vend aty.
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Oct 11, 2010 11:22:28 GMT -5
Both communism and capitalism are products and falling systems that been created by anti christ and jew guy karl marx. I am the only one God Democrat and My Holy people's True Law. Cheers! Myself, Mysia The Messiah The Perfect Teacher !!!
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Post by logjiktek on Oct 11, 2010 11:52:53 GMT -5
I'm not trying to sound like a smartass, but from an outsider looking in, I think Albania has lost 50 years of development with the outside world that they will never get back. Albania is one of the poorest countries in Europe. Albania had fewer than 500 cars during the communism period, and I don't even see the point of using a car when your resources were going to building bunkers for a ideological madman who actually thought that bunkers would hold off invaders. Even the actions of Albanians today trying to become more European than Europeans is an effect of communism. Women dressing sluttier than Las Vegas prostitutes. There are even more EU flags flown during speeches by Berisha than there are of Albanian flags. Not to mention the attitudes of some Albanians from Albania towards those from the outside. It's disgusting. But being locked up like a rat for 50 years will do that to you.
Hoxha's communism was a disease and any longing for it is irrational IMO. You can blame modernization, urbanization, capitalism, whatever ism you want....but please do not long for Hoxha's communism.
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Oct 11, 2010 12:06:54 GMT -5
I think Albania has lost 50 years of development with the outside world so you saying that when after everybody die in this world albanians will be alive for 50 more years
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Post by toskaliku on Oct 11, 2010 13:40:00 GMT -5
Well, i think its kind of like what Putin said: "Anyone who doesn't regret the passing of the Soviet Union has no heart. Anyone who wants it restored has no brains."
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Oct 11, 2010 13:42:41 GMT -5
Don't feel so bad, communism is coming back in the form of regional, then global government. So cheer up. And you certainly did not lose your communist leaders, they suddenly became great democratic leaders, which is the case in every former communist country.
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Post by zoti on Oct 11, 2010 13:43:46 GMT -5
Not to mention the attitudes of some Albanians from Albania towards those from the outside. It's disgusting. But being locked up like a rat for 50 years will do that to you. What kind of attitude are you referring to? Also how does it differ from the attitude you have towards the "rats locked in for 50 years" within Albania? Don't feel so bad, communism is coming back in the form of regional, then global government. So cheer up. And you certainly did not lose your communist leaders, they suddenly became great democratic leaders, which is the case in every former communist country. The current leadership would have been mass executed under the old regime.
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Oct 11, 2010 14:06:46 GMT -5
The current leadership would have been mass executed under the old regime. How can they execute themselves?
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Post by logjiktek on Oct 11, 2010 14:07:58 GMT -5
What kind of attitude are you referring to? Also how does it differ from the attitude you have towards the "rats locked in for 50 years" within Albania? This elitist attitude of being true Albanians and so forth. I think you misunderstood me, I didn't call you rats, I compared system in place like a rat in a cage. Well, i think its kind of like what Putin said: "Anyone who doesn't regret the passing of the Soviet Union has no heart. Anyone who wants it restored has no brains." Fair enough.
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Post by zoti on Oct 11, 2010 14:20:04 GMT -5
How can they execute themselves? All of the old Communsit guard was executed by Hoxha through the years. The only exception was his successor Ramiz Alia and a few others who posed no threat to Hoxha's reign.
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Post by zoti on Oct 11, 2010 14:23:43 GMT -5
This elitist attitude of being true Albanians and so forth. Maybe that's your perception but in Albania the Albanians in Kosova and Macedonia are considered "true" Albanians or at least the more patriotic ones. The elitist attitude may stem from the Tirana elite looking down on pretty much anyone who's not from Tirana. It has nothing to do one being from within or without Albania. Also, the Albanians from Macedonia are viewed as very religious and coservative and that doesn't sit well with the majority atheist elite.
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Post by zoti on Oct 11, 2010 14:45:26 GMT -5
Albania's Albanians were completely f**ked up by Hoxha. When my grandmother returned in Albania in 1991, 44 years after she fled the country because of communism, she was shocked and disgusted by what this regime had done to Albania and Albanians. When she returned in Luma (area of Kukës) she was really shocked to see that the young women, young "nuse" were still dressed, every day, in tradional costume, that people had nothing, really nothing !! Her sister told her the only cow they were allowed to possess had been taken in the 80' ans that they didn't eat enough !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This man was a devil ! What he did to his own people is a SHAME. As someone who grew up in Communist Albania I disagree. You can't judge Albania's standard by Luma (One of Albanians' poorest regions) in the 80's (the worst ecoomic crisis in Albania). How much better are the people in Luma doing today, 20 years after communism fell? Very few of you have lived in both eras (AlbQuietman is the only one tha comes to mind who lived duirng both) so no one can really speak on the topic. As for us being fvcked up by Hoxha I can tell you that everyone I know from Tirana who now lives in NYC has graduated college. My inner circle of friends is basically made up of attorneys and people who work in finance/accounting. I know quite a few who have graduated from Harvard, Yale, and NYU (which I am currently attending). If there's one thing Hoxha emphasized was literacy and education and what we have achieved in the West was thanks to our educational aspirations.
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Post by toskaliku on Oct 11, 2010 14:53:00 GMT -5
Mashalla, Zoti! Bravo qoft! My friend is going there now, he just took the LSAT on Saturday
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 11, 2010 14:54:38 GMT -5
Mashalla, Zoti! Bravo qoft! My friend is going there now, he just took the LSAT on Saturday Mashalla...? Allah akbar...
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Post by zoti on Oct 11, 2010 14:57:37 GMT -5
Mashalla, Zoti! Bravo qoft! My friend is going there now, he just took the LSAT on Saturday Thanks. I got my JD from St. John's. I'm getting an LLM (Master's in Tax Law) from NYU. good luck to your friend. When I went to law school in 2003 there were barely any Albanians in law school. Now it seems like every other Albanian I meet is going to law school. It's a tough time to get a law degree as the legal market has tanked but I think it'll be worth it in the long run.
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