Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 31, 2010 2:22:05 GMT -5
It always a pleasure to see the failed propagandists hitting their heads on the wall, only to find out that TRUE MAKEDONIANS like Nikola have a different opinion!!!
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 31, 2010 2:24:05 GMT -5
Nikola, my dear Serb, PLEASE post another 10 maps from your impressive 'heap'. Ok, so go ahead and post another 10. There, however, is one key difference between the maps we posted. Mine are ETHNOGRAPHIC, they illustrate the ETHNIC makeup of the region. Yours are POLITICAL, they show that Macedonia was a part of the East Roman Empire as well as the Serbian Empire. And to get into the nitty gritty details, Macedonia was only a part of the Serbian Empire for a mere 30 years. you little b1tch, had posted a map, showing "Belgrad" as bulgarian land, when bulgos ruled over Beograd for 3 years, right? You are shameless..
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2010 2:25:32 GMT -5
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Oct 31, 2010 3:39:24 GMT -5
There, however, is one key difference between the maps we posted. Mine are ETHNOGRAPHIC, they illustrate the ETHNIC makeup of the region. Your maps don't show the ethnic makeup of the region, they show suppressed propaganda fed to the west by Bulgarians. Let me explain what I'm talking about. According to Wikipedia: The National Statistical Institute of Bulgaria estimates the country's population for 2009 at 7,606,000 people. According to the 2001 census,[135] it consists mainly of ethnic Bulgarians (83.9%), with two sizable minorities, Turks (9.4%) and Roma (4.7%).[136] Of the remaining 2.0%, 0.9% comprises some 40 smaller minorities, while 1.1% of the population have not declared their ethnicity.Even today, according to Bulgarians, there are no people in Bulgaria that consider themselves to be Macedonians. These people are simply labeled as Bulgarians. And yet, we know that that's not true. We know that there is a large minority in Bulgaria and Greece that are not Bulgarian or Greek and instead choose to identify as Macedonians (rightly or wrongly, it's not the point). Their right to self identity is denied and has been denied for centuries. Their human rights are denied and suppressed. They are TOLD that they are Bulgarians, even if they don't feel it. So called "independent western" sources rely on said Bulgarian census data to draw current ethnic maps of Bulgaria, just like they always have. Which means, 100 years from now, when your grand, grand, grand children are spamming forums like this, they will dig up "western" maps of today and conclude that in 2010, Bulgaria was ethnically 83.9% Bulgarian, 9.4% Turkish and 4.7% Gypsy. There were no Macedonians in Bulgaria back then they will retort. The maps don't show any Macedonians so it must be true right? Your ethnic maps are useless. The actions of Modern Bulgaria proves that, so stop using them to try and prove something which clearly isn't true.
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Post by ulf on Oct 31, 2010 5:46:05 GMT -5
Correct Nikola. Also about claiming of "denied" Bulgarian territorial lands; check this map: So Russians had whole of Bulgaria at some point in history, can they claim Bulgaria as once territory of their own. Even still there are some Ukrainian minority there. For me its same sh*t with Bulgaria and Macedonia
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2010 6:13:51 GMT -5
Your maps don't show the ethnic makeup of the region, they show suppressed propaganda fed to the west by Bulgarians. they are not made by Bulgarians. They are made by the western scholars. Back when the majority in Macedonia selfdeclared as Bulgarians, because the Macedonian nationality was not on the map. It just reflects the reality. There are grand 5 071 people identifying as Macedonians in Bulgaria. See here: www.nsi.bg/Census/Ethnos.htmI m sure you can fluently read the source though its in "another" language. So if the Macedonians are counted in the OFFICIAL STATE SENSUS (the last one), their right to selfidentify are definately respected. The reality is: only 3000 people identify as Macedonians in Pirin Macedonia: most are part of the Skopie financed OMO Ilinden and some are those recent Macedonians that were welcomed by Bulgaria and that left in Bulgaria and still think they are Macedonians, because of the brainwashing in Macedonia. The reality: the people in Pirin Macedonia are the biggest Bulgarians. They do not identify as Macedonians. So actually the maps will be right in 100 years from now: in 2010 there are 5000 Macedonians (3000 in Pirin Macedonia) which is not even 1 percent, so they dont deserve any mention. You wont find Macedonians in Pirin Nikola, thats for sure. So the maps 100 years ago are right. They just dont suit Macedonias present politics. They want to hide any sources that prooves that most of the Macedonians selfidentified as Bulgarians till 50 years ago.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Oct 31, 2010 6:34:23 GMT -5
that most of the Macedonians selfidentified as Bulgarians till 50 years ago. You keep missing the point. The people couldn't self identify as Macedonians, just like that can't self identify as Macedonians now. Their claims are ignored and suppressed. And nobody knows for sure how many Macedonians there are in Bulgaria. So your claims of exact numbers are just made up.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Oct 31, 2010 6:44:55 GMT -5
Btw, I found the page from where you're getting your numbers from and holy sh1t, is it not the most appalling piece of garbage written on Wikipedia. Everything is written as though it's indisputable fact, and everything you type on this forum, feels like it has been copied and pasted from that page. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Macedonians_in_BulgariaI can guarantee that it's been written by a Bulgarian. Probably by one of the trio that constantly spam this forum.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Oct 31, 2010 6:49:56 GMT -5
Oh and I especially love the excuse provided to explain why 169,544 (though the real figure is disputed to be up to 1/4 million) people in Bulgaria "mistakenly" declared themselves as Macedonians. During the census, on December 27 the governor of Blagoevgrad districts sent a telegram with an order all Bulgarians (excluding the ones migrated from other regions of Bulgaria) in the region to be counted as ethnic Macedonians, including the Bulgarian Muslims.Pure and utter garbage. You Bulgarians should be ashamed.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 31, 2010 7:30:32 GMT -5
Btw, I found the page from where you're getting your numbers from and holy sh1t, is it not the most appalling piece of garbage written on Wikipedia. Everything is written as though it's indisputable fact, and everything you type on this forum, feels like it has been copied and pasted from that page. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Macedonians_in_BulgariaI can guarantee that it's been written by a Bulgarian. Probably by one of the trio that constantly spam this forum. Spot on brate!
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2010 7:36:17 GMT -5
Thats the facts. The Macedonian nation was created recently. The Macedonian idea was foreign so the people in Pirin had to be pushed to declare "Macedonian" (not regionally, but nationally). Bulgaria doesnt supress Macedonians. If it did, there will be no grand 5000 Macedonians in Bulgaria, from which 3000 in Pirin. I m sure most are recent newcomers bred with macedonism and antibulgarism that soon will read the real history of the region Macedonia and will understand their real origin.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Oct 31, 2010 7:49:20 GMT -5
Bulgaria doesn't properly acknowledge the existence of Macedonians. It considers the people to be Bulgarians. How is that not suppression? It's even worse actually. The 5000 figure is most likely recent immigrants from Macedonia which the government feels it has to acknowledge.
Again, shameful.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2010 7:56:59 GMT -5
not let me tell u how it works a census. You are asked what your ethnicity is. Then it is written down. The fact that there are Macedonians in Bulgaria means that there is freedom to defy yourself as you wish. The problem is: only 5000 people want to selfidentify as Macedonians and thats what is pity for you. The Macedonian idea can not have any sucsess in Bulgaria, because here people can read facts without world famous "Macedonian interpretations" like Samuel is Macedonian etc. When in the original sources he is clearly described as Bulgarian. In Bulgaria the Macedonian ethnicity cant sucseed because it is based on falsification of Bulgarian medievil history.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Oct 31, 2010 8:16:53 GMT -5
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2010 8:18:41 GMT -5
I choose NOT to read fabrications or wishful thinking. If u go in Pirin and say that those people are Macedonians u ll be beaten up. I told u: the biggest Bulgarians live there. Amazing Bulgarians!
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Oct 31, 2010 8:38:38 GMT -5
I'll have to take your word for it. Yeah...
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2010 9:04:30 GMT -5
If you go there yourself, u ll see.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Oct 31, 2010 9:13:01 GMT -5
Like you have been to Macedonia?
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 31, 2010 9:31:39 GMT -5
so what? I have friends who have been there. The old people still do tell them "we are brothers". Especially when they are drunk.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 31, 2010 10:17:20 GMT -5
^^^ you are the only drunk person here Ioan! you and the other dog Asen.
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