Post by ivo on Dec 1, 2010 11:09:40 GMT -5
Dear friends, as I've already mentioned, linguistics isn't all that interesting to me so I don't read much on it. So maybe you can all help me out, and clarify a question for me.
If Torlak is indeed closer to Serbian, then why do linguists group it together with Bulgarian/Macedonian rather than with Serbian? ie. Torlak like Bulgarian/Macedonia is categorized as Eastern South Slavic, while Serbian is categorized as Western South Slavic. Why is that I wonder?
Tosk and Aromanian are almost the same, but they still have the SP, at least optionally. MR has an invariant ‘will’ marker (vr a)þSPþpresent or perfect (see ‘Perfect in ‘‘Have’’ ’). In Bulgarian, Torlak, and other dialectal BCS, however, it is ‘will’ that conjugates in the imperfectþSPþpresent, and Gheg has the conjugated imperfect auxiliary ‘have’þ infinitive. The Balkan construction extends into BCS as far as southern Croatia and southwestern Serbia, and the southern Montenegrin dialects have the widest range of uses for the construction, thereby being most Balkan. In Turkish, the future participle plus a past auxiliary di or mis¸ has the same nuances ofirrealis conditional (Table 6). In Greek, Albanian, and Vlah, conditional constructions normally have a form of the ‘will’ morpheme. In BS, the Balkan conditional is in competition with the inherited conditional using the old optative of ‘be’ (invariant bi in Macedonian, conjugating in Bulgarian and Torlak)þold resultative participle. Romani dialects in contact with Slavic also use invariant biþpresent as a conditional. In Romanian, a special conjugation of ‘have’þinfinitive serves as a conditional-optative.
p. 12
Concise encyclopedia of languages of the world By Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie
MR survives in seven villages near Gevgelija in the southeast of the Republic of Macedonia and across the border in Greece. During the 19th century, BR was often called Wallachian. The term ‘Vlah’ can be used as a convenient cover term for BR south of the Danube (Aromanian plus Megleno-Romanian). BS consists of Bulgarian, Macedonian, and the southeast Serbian (Torlak) dialects. Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian (BCS) together with Slovene, form the West South Slavic group, and Macedonian and Bulgarian comprise East South Slavic. The Bulgarian standard is based on its eastern dialects, the Macedonian standard on its west-central dialects. The northern and western boundaries of Torlak as a Balkan dialect are variously defined using phonological or morphological criteria. The narrowest definition is morphological, e.g., the isogloss for the presence of the postposed definite article; the broadest definition is phonological, e.g., the absence of distinctive vocalic length and tone. During the 19th century, BS was often called ‘Bulgarian,’ and Bulgarian and Serbian linguists and armies fought over where to draw a line between Bulgarian and Serbian.
p. 120
Concise encyclopedia of languages of the world By Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie
At one end is Gheg, follwed closely by Romanian, then Tosk, Bulgarian, Greek, and Vlah, with Torlak, Romani, and Macedonian at the other end.
p. 127
Concise encyclopedia of languages of the world By Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie
And btw, I've read that Torlaks identified with Bulgaria more so than they did with Serbia.. so much so, that when the 'new' Serbian state was formed after it obtained it's independence from the Ottoman Empire, Torlaks were unable to understand the language spoken in and around Belgrade.
I'll look around for those sources again, and I'll share them.
Oh, and hold on, let me guess I'm a Mongol, a Turk, a Turkified Serb, or Mongolo-Turk-Ukranian-Serb or what not.. right?
If Torlak is indeed closer to Serbian, then why do linguists group it together with Bulgarian/Macedonian rather than with Serbian? ie. Torlak like Bulgarian/Macedonia is categorized as Eastern South Slavic, while Serbian is categorized as Western South Slavic. Why is that I wonder?
Lindstedt (2000) singles out twelve grammatical Balkanisms and examines their distribution in five language gropus of the Srachbund: Greek, Albanian, Balkan Romance - including Romanian, Aromanian and Megleno-Romanian, Balkan Slavic - including Bulgarian, Macedonian and the Torlak Serbian dialects, and Balkan Romani.
p. 5
Balkan syntax and semantics
Olga Mišeska Tomić, Aida Martinovic-Zic
p. 5
Balkan syntax and semantics
Olga Mišeska Tomić, Aida Martinovic-Zic
Tosk and Aromanian are almost the same, but they still have the SP, at least optionally. MR has an invariant ‘will’ marker (vr a)þSPþpresent or perfect (see ‘Perfect in ‘‘Have’’ ’). In Bulgarian, Torlak, and other dialectal BCS, however, it is ‘will’ that conjugates in the imperfectþSPþpresent, and Gheg has the conjugated imperfect auxiliary ‘have’þ infinitive. The Balkan construction extends into BCS as far as southern Croatia and southwestern Serbia, and the southern Montenegrin dialects have the widest range of uses for the construction, thereby being most Balkan. In Turkish, the future participle plus a past auxiliary di or mis¸ has the same nuances ofirrealis conditional (Table 6). In Greek, Albanian, and Vlah, conditional constructions normally have a form of the ‘will’ morpheme. In BS, the Balkan conditional is in competition with the inherited conditional using the old optative of ‘be’ (invariant bi in Macedonian, conjugating in Bulgarian and Torlak)þold resultative participle. Romani dialects in contact with Slavic also use invariant biþpresent as a conditional. In Romanian, a special conjugation of ‘have’þinfinitive serves as a conditional-optative.
p. 12
Concise encyclopedia of languages of the world By Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie
MR survives in seven villages near Gevgelija in the southeast of the Republic of Macedonia and across the border in Greece. During the 19th century, BR was often called Wallachian. The term ‘Vlah’ can be used as a convenient cover term for BR south of the Danube (Aromanian plus Megleno-Romanian). BS consists of Bulgarian, Macedonian, and the southeast Serbian (Torlak) dialects. Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian (BCS) together with Slovene, form the West South Slavic group, and Macedonian and Bulgarian comprise East South Slavic. The Bulgarian standard is based on its eastern dialects, the Macedonian standard on its west-central dialects. The northern and western boundaries of Torlak as a Balkan dialect are variously defined using phonological or morphological criteria. The narrowest definition is morphological, e.g., the isogloss for the presence of the postposed definite article; the broadest definition is phonological, e.g., the absence of distinctive vocalic length and tone. During the 19th century, BS was often called ‘Bulgarian,’ and Bulgarian and Serbian linguists and armies fought over where to draw a line between Bulgarian and Serbian.
p. 120
Concise encyclopedia of languages of the world By Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie
At one end is Gheg, follwed closely by Romanian, then Tosk, Bulgarian, Greek, and Vlah, with Torlak, Romani, and Macedonian at the other end.
p. 127
Concise encyclopedia of languages of the world By Keith Brown, Sarah Ogilvie
However, Joseph (1983) suggests that infinitive-like structures are more wide-spread in all of Albanian than generally assumed. In Serbo-Croation, the 'loss' of the infinitive has progressed farthest in the so-called Torlak dialects which are geographically closest to the Balkan languages Bulgarian and Macedonian; it has made the least inroads in the more 'peripheral' Croatian.
Historical dialectology: regional and social By Jacek Fisiak
Historical dialectology: regional and social By Jacek Fisiak
And btw, I've read that Torlaks identified with Bulgaria more so than they did with Serbia.. so much so, that when the 'new' Serbian state was formed after it obtained it's independence from the Ottoman Empire, Torlaks were unable to understand the language spoken in and around Belgrade.
I'll look around for those sources again, and I'll share them.
Oh, and hold on, let me guess I'm a Mongol, a Turk, a Turkified Serb, or Mongolo-Turk-Ukranian-Serb or what not.. right?