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Post by srbobran on Feb 10, 2011 16:59:07 GMT -5
Lets be real for a second. Albanians and there ability to unity despite differences is admirable. Our inability to emulate their unity is what makes us so shitty today.
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Post by plisbardhi on Feb 10, 2011 17:03:18 GMT -5
You make me sick. You deliberately try to misrepresent us in the most dishonest way. You yourself have already done a 360 identity-wise, so tradition must not be so stong in your family.
Your "core Serb" region of MNE, BiH, and Sandzak are highly comparable to Albanians in history of keeping and "giving up" traditions. Look at all the Muslims in Sandzak, Bosnia, and Hercegovina. Montenegro still has Muslims and there were loads more back in the day before the Petrovic dynasty started massively exterminating them, read Gorski Vijenac. (Gyrros' ultra-Greek Crete was also 50% Muslim back in the day.) Thats just the religious angle, if we get into the ethnic I'm afraid you might start crying.
As for the Albanian porn-star, I never heard of that. All I can say on that issue is that as far as porno goes Serbs are already far ahead of us in every aspect.
Ljubotan, I commend you for the outstanding honesty you display in every regard. Its refreshing to read a Serb's posts like yours.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Feb 10, 2011 18:21:48 GMT -5
Yeah Ljubotan's cool.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Feb 10, 2011 22:02:16 GMT -5
Ruseche, l never said varna is serbian, and btw, show me evidence.
To Srbobran:
There is no conspiracy here, l know his in contact with these BuLgari, they are poison. I really don't care if he agrees or disagrees, this is his right.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 11, 2011 1:29:46 GMT -5
You make me sick. You deliberately try to misrepresent us in the most dishonest way. You yourself have already done a 360 identity-wise, so tradition must not be so stong in your family. Your "core Serb" region of MNE, BiH, and Sandzak are highly comparable to Albanians in history of keeping and "giving up" traditions. Look at all the Muslims in Sandzak, Bosnia, and Hercegovina. Montenegro still has Muslims and there were loads more back in the day before the Petrovic dynasty started massively exterminating them, read Gorski Vijenac. (Gyrros' ultra-Greek Crete was also 50% Muslim back in the day.) Thats just the religious angle, if we get into the ethnic I'm afraid you might start crying. As for the Albanian porn-star, I never heard of that. All I can say on that issue is that as far as porno goes Serbs are already far ahead of us in every aspect. Ljubotan, I commend you for the outstanding honesty you display in every regard. Its refreshing to read a Serb's posts like yours. Truth hurts, I know. Religion in this time was the root of tribal values. This every anthropologist would tell you. What the Montenegrins did was completely natural when you become familiar with the strict, traditional quality of Serb culture. Gorski Vijenac is a work of art, you should read it some time...it might help you understand. Albanians' willingness to change their religion for materialistic gain is a clear reflection on the weakness of Albanian values and their anti-traditionalist essence. We have a new member 'Why?', born an Albanian, and yet today possesses no ethnicity. For a historical example, the Arvanites (if they are indeed Shqiptars) view themselves a part of the Hellenic ethnos not because of the 'boogieman-like greeks' but because of this untraditional nature of the Albanian identity which I explained above. That knight Djuro Skanderbeg (who beared more resemblance to his uncle the Serb prince Djuro Balsic, than to the Albanians), that truly glorious knight the likes of whom will never come again, was sold out for money to the Turks. To prevent his escape the Albanians snuck into his bedroom in the middle of the night, and beheaded him, selling it for money to the Sultan.- Petar Petrovic II Njegos Oh and her name is Breanne Benson, look her up.
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Post by plisbardhi on Feb 11, 2011 2:48:54 GMT -5
Admin nicely summed up your emotionally driven mindset in the ethnicities thread and you demonstrate that finely here. Its really getting redundant having to explain that to you over and over but you really don't seem to see your hypocricy. You lack honesty to yourself therefore honesty in these matters. It was indeed natural given that Montenegrins were absorbed into Serbian Orthodoxy. I do not doubt for a second that if a portion of Albanians were absorbed into Orthodox Serbs that they could do the same things. And indeed it has happened when you look at certain ex-Albanian Montenegrin clans. I highly suggest you read Heavenly Serbia, it explains this perfectly from a perspective I think your would definately agree with (I hate having to explain things that have already been better said by someone else). You live in the US so you should have no problems finding the book as it is available in most libraries. I wish there was a book like that about Albs, maybe if we were fortunate to have such enemies as the Croats. This is a HUGELY hypocritic post. If anything the massive amount of ex-Serb and ex-Croat Muslims that came into being can actually show the weakness for your ethnicity and not ours. For the Albanian muslims atleast still remained ALBANIAN in culture, language, and identity. But thats not my point, your hypocrisy is. That you try to make that hypocritic point only proves your dishonesty and inat towards us. (PS. You even claim a huge portion of Albs as ex-Serbs. How weak were their values? ) And read Lahuta e Malesise if you really want to get acquainted with our culture. The fact that the Arvanites settled in Greece in the 13-1400 and still speak our language and call it Arberishte is a testament to our strong ethnic identity. They don't share our national identity and I wouldn't expect them to given their circumstances. But there are even execptions to that too like Aristididh Kola. 'Why?' is a unique case and there are idiots like him in every nationality. Atleast he denies ethnicity altogether instead of changing it like you did which is even more bizarre. You clearly don't know shit about Scanderbeg and neither did Njegos. Read a decent biography, he died of natural causes. And lets not start talking about the numerous Serb traitors that can fill volumes. Gjergj Kastrioti is still our national hero today, don't be jealous that he was more revered in the West than any Serb ever was. A whore is a whore, now go jerk off and do what you do best.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Feb 11, 2011 3:21:11 GMT -5
Lets be real for a second. Albanians and there ability to unity despite differences is admirable. Our inability to emulate their unity is what makes us so s**tty today. You dont have a clue of what you are talking about. How many albos do you have in your neighborhood ? Or are you just propagating stories you read on the net? Diaspora Albos get tribal and traditional only if they are completely cut-off the rest of the society. If they have a slight chance of becoming or looking like the citizens of the host country, then they scrap their albanian passport and change their names/religion without second thought. Proof : almost *all* albanians in Greece have been baptised greek orthodox and have also Greek names (and all of them know the local tang fluently). No Serb or Ukranian or Pole or Bulgarian (Or English/German/Korean/Japanese/Chinese) has ever done that or has ever managed to speak Greek correctly.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 11, 2011 3:38:54 GMT -5
i think that's a wrong assessment of Albanians. they would kill the daughter w/out a second thought, whereas Slavs would disown her and then accept her back yrs later (we're more civilized than the latter). I absolutely agree. I have lived in NYC for over two decades (was not even twenty years old yet back then) and I have met countless Albanians here and many have became my close friends. I know them and their families rather intimately. There is no way in hell that they would ever allow such a thing any more then a Montenegrin family would (in fact similarities between us to be truthful are far from exaggerated). They are very traditional people and family oriented. Family encompasses their being. There is no need to get again emotional Krivo in a negative mode only this time towards poor Albanians and develop tunnel vision of what you like to see. Many might have become Muslims but so have many Montenegrins and many left for Turkey around 100 years ago. Hell, third of Bosniaks in Bosnia are from Sandjak (which are mainly Muslim Montenegrins by origins). PS: I, again do no see them as people alien to me on any level. I only find their language enigmatic (as far as origins go) but not their being.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 11, 2011 4:02:50 GMT -5
Admin nicely summed up your emotionally driven mindset in the ethnicities thread and you demonstrate that finely here. Its really getting redundant having to explain that to you over and over but you really don't seem to see your hypocricy. You lack honesty to yourself therefore honesty in these matters. You jump on the Admin bandwagon when he conforms to your agenda, and when he doesn't, he's a fool. Truly an indicator of your emotional psyche. Religion, as a concept, is the vehicle with which tribal societies expressed and preserved their values. Whichever religion it is, it's irrelevant. The Muslim Montenegrins when changing their religion, at the same time essentially changed their values, which invariably changed the inter-tribe dynamic. It's not that they betrayed, it's how the tribe/society reacted to this betrayal which is important. The Muslims are not a part of the Serb ethnos (we're speaking PC here), not because they themselves wanted to split - but because the Serbs didn't want them, after they essentially turned their backs on the values that shaped their shared identity, this Gorski Vijenac illustrates. I'll take a look, I actually watched some Flaka e Maleves before and I liked it. That's all in vain if they don't identify as Albanians. Now ask yourself why they are Greeks? Because of their early value system - Orthodoxy. The foundation of tribal-unity. I don't know how many times I had to explain this to you, but Montenegrin and Serb are/were never seen as seperate ethnicities. Stop deliberately misconstruing things. Right you know more than Njegos did ;D Yeah but this one gets watched by her own damn parents, gzuar o kurve I have Albanian relatives (through marriage) from NYC too, I know this kind. In front of outsiders they regularly say they're Italians, Greeks. Any loyalty to tradition goes out the window when in the presence of westerners.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Feb 11, 2011 5:22:56 GMT -5
I have Albanian relatives (through marriage) from NYC too, I know this kind. In front of outsiders they regularly say they're Italians, Greeks. Any loyalty to tradition goes out the window when in the presence of westerners. Exactly.
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Post by plisbardhi on Feb 11, 2011 6:40:05 GMT -5
The man happens to be right or wrong about certain things but he happens to be right about you. Nothing emotional about that. Unlike you I'm able to precieve the world in more than just black and white.
Ok so you admit you were wrong then about Albanians having weaker values thus converting more than the Serbs. I would add that the Albanian ethnos is more resilient since we didn't exclude our brothers that converted since all that changed was religious orientation which was weak among us to begin with. You see the SOC actually weakened Serbs by cutting you off from your own people, your ethnic genetic interests. Not even the Croats were that bad, atleast they considered Bosniaks as their people some even going so far as to call them the purest Croats.
There you go again only seeing things in black and white. They identify ethnically as Albanians - Arvanites. Their national identity is Greek. Its not 'in vein' and nobody is crying over that. That was before national identities were taking shape, Greeks didn't even call themselves Greeks until after they established their state. The Arvanites still retained their ethnic identity and language for a few centuries short of a millenea in a highly assimilative environment. Only now in late modern times are they starting to fade to black. My point still stands, you failed with that one too.
I'm not misconstruing anything. That actually happened and most people here wittnessed it. The fact is that you in fact DID see them as separate ethnicities even though you were born and raised into that group. I'm not talking about how the world saw Serb/Montes, I'm talking about how YOU did.
Apparently I do as far as knowledge of Scanderbeg goes.
That reminds me of the scene in Godfather III when the reporter asks about Michael Corleone's mob ties and his spokesman responds: "Today the Holy Father himself has blessed Michael Corleone. You think you know better than the Pope?"
I can see you're getting off at that idea. I'll let you have your moment.
That definately isn't common in NYC where people know the difference between Albs, Italians, and Greeks. You guys have actually resort to downing diaspora Albs when you have nothing better to say. What a bitter bunch of lames you guys are. The funny part is that Gyrro wants to be a Serb and he lives in Athens. LOL
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Feb 11, 2011 8:09:27 GMT -5
The funny part is that Pyrros wants to be a Serb and he lives in Athens. LOL Nothing weird here my friend. From the protozoa to the advanced forms of life there is a progression. Protozoa->other animals->.................->albanians->greeks->serbs->germanics->.....
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