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Post by terroreign on Jan 9, 2011 1:42:14 GMT -5
Turkey being a diverse country, it is home to many people of many different ethnic backgrounds, one of the largest, Serbian. Check this out, Typical Serb looks. This first girl's face you can find anywhere in Montenegro, dime a dozen. ^Emina Jahovic, Serbian singer, has been featured recently in a big Turkish Soap Opera, "Polje Lala" or "Lale Devri" in Turkish. Nice to know our seed lives on in Turkey. Turks may have won the Kosovo battle, but we won the genetic one.
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Post by mystery on Jan 9, 2011 8:54:35 GMT -5
Dude all the white people in Turkey originated from the Balkans but not serbia. Many of them were Albanians, Bosnians, Greeks and other slavs. Alot of albanians were deported during the Yugo days due to the fear of Albanians becoming the majority in the old Yugo, result hundreds of thousands of albanians were forced to leave..
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Post by terroreign on Jan 9, 2011 22:24:59 GMT -5
^Dude don't downplay the Serb influence here. Albanians throughout history have always been a much, much smaller nation than the Serbs. Bosnians are Serbs of course, the most famous one, Mehmed Pasa Sokolovic, one of the greatest Ottoman Architects in history.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jan 10, 2011 13:53:20 GMT -5
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Post by toskaliku on Jan 10, 2011 13:57:41 GMT -5
Its unlikely that any Muslim slav arriving in Turkey at any given point would willfully proclaim himself "Serbian", considering that most Muslim Slavs in Turkey arrived after they were expelled from what is today Serbia. Most of them would be seen simply as "Slav" or in other instances "Arnavut" (since they often came with Albanian refugees, who were in much greater numbers. The same case with refugees coming from the Caucasus who were often collectively called Cerkez, even though they may have been from various other ethnicities). Especially since most "Serbian Turks" came from the region of Sanzak, which had a large admixture of Albanians in the area (roughly 15%).
Its like when Serbs claim that there are 40,000 Serbs in Albania, even though they can only find 2000 self-proclaimed Serbs. The reason is that there are over 10,000 Slavic Muslims in Durres, and over a dozen thousand other Muslim Slavs in other parts, none of whom would willfully claim to be Serbian.
I would even wonder if Jahovic would actually proclaim herself "Serbian".
A generic term which probably includes very many Muslim Slavs from all over the Balkans, be it from Bosnia, Macedonia, Sanzak.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 10, 2011 16:39:42 GMT -5
We're not talking here ethnic Serbs in that sense. But Turks of Serbian origins, who know themselves as Turks today. It was a word Turks used for the Serb Muslim population in Bosnia Sandzak, that is all. It just so happened that many of these Bosnian Serbs moved to Sandzak during the Ottoman empire. Of course not, just like back in the day a Turkish Christian (if there was any) wouldn't openly call himself a Turk in free Serbian lands. They were enemies for 500 years. It doesn't matter what they call themselves or are called, it's that they speak the Serbian language and traditionally called themselves Serbs. Mehmed Sokolovic and Mesa Selimovic would attest to this fact. It similar to you saying now that the Arberesh are not Albanians because they do not call themselves Shqiptars, nor Albanians. Emina Jahovic definitely calls herself a Serbian, since she was born there and is a citizen. Whether she admits her blatant Serb origin, unlike most of her brethren, is up to question.
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Post by toskaliku on Jan 10, 2011 19:01:46 GMT -5
If she doesnt say that she is a Serb (that is, when the question is placed before her), she is not a Serb.
Terrible logical analogy, absolutely terrible. Arberesh derives from Arber, an old word Albs used for themselves. Its was an ethnonym at one point. On top of that Italians call them, as they often call themselves, "italo-albanese".
The situations are not the same at all. Please, consider your analogies before you present them as arguments.
There are Turkish Christians. They are called Gaugauz. They live in Moldova and Romania ... they call themselves Turks and even have Turkic associated ethnic symbol.
Dunno about Sokolovic, but Mesa proclaimed himself a Serb. Thats the only way he was turned into one. Again, terrible logical analogy.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 11, 2011 0:44:15 GMT -5
If she doesnt say that she is a Serb (that is, when the question is placed before her), she is not a Serb. Sure one could deny they're human, I'm sure you'd support their decision. It makes perfect sense, you're just too stupid to understand. They in Turkey call themselves "Bosanci", that which Serbs in Bosnia have called themselves for centuries. It doesn't mean they're any less Serb because they don't call themselves Serb today. Same thing with the Arberesh, only flipside, you in Albania do not call yourselves Arber, are you now not Albanians? I'm talking about Serbs and Turks, I can give a rats a** about the romanians or moldavians. There was not one people in the Balkans so hated by the Turks like the Serbs were, there with the Greeks. The killing of Sultan Murat in 1389 created a fiery tension between the people, thus that Serbs converted to Islam would be pressured not to voice their Serb origins by the Ottomans. Yeah, he was. "Mehmed, the first Vezir, is married to the Sultan's daughter, of whom he has a 5 to 6 year old son. He himself is 60 to 70 years old, he's of Serb ethnicity."1573, Andrea Bodoaro Venetian minister Furthermore his brother was a Patriarch of the Serb church: Famous grand vizier Sokollu Mehmed Pasha's brother Makarije was designated as the Patriarch of the Serbian Church and he resurrected the Serb Nation. Remember the sect struggles in Europe, and European massacres in the name of religion. Remember the nations of Far East whose mother tongues were assimilated (Hindus) or remember Africa or South America.From a Turkish site: Some slaves of the Gate formed a Serb lobby in the capital, often in conflict with the Greek-dominated Patriarchate. The most prominent Constantinople Serb, and one of the most prominent figures of Ottoman history, was born Bajica Sokolovic in 1505, fifty years after the conquest,.in the small town of Visegrad on the Serbian-Bosnian frontier. www.istanbullife.org/constantiople.htm
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jan 11, 2011 7:00:01 GMT -5
Turks today know their ethnic origins, and every single person questioned in the census of the figures i presented above call themselves a Turk, yet they were asked their ethnic ancestry and that is what made up the numbers above.
Just as I know that I have Turk origins as well as non Turk origins, everyone is aware of their own.
I have mentioned on this forum before that I have: Bulgarian, Greek, Egyptian, Zaza, Yoruk and Turkmen (Turk) Roots. The people of Turkey are a mixture. I call myself a Turk today, I almost always specify that I am Turkish Cypriot and half Mainland Turkish. When asked I will delve into my ethnicity.
If somebody had Serbian roots they would say it. Why wouldn't they? also Serbs are not hated by Turks I find that very ignorant.
You clearly do not know much about Turkish historical religious background, Turks were pagan, shamans, and Christians before they converted to Islam.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 11, 2011 7:59:45 GMT -5
^From what I see in that link, is there are 2 million Bosnians in Turkey which you so conveniently left out.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jan 11, 2011 8:55:44 GMT -5
Opps I apologise, it wasn't intentional, reading in Turkish and translating to English, especially when it isn't in a table/data format i sometimes skip things. Unfortunate for this thread. Yes there are 2 million bosnians, in fact there is even areas of Istanbul named after Bosnians. I saw one on tv the other day, he was on a marraige program, very white, blue eyes, and blonde lol he was looking for a wife.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 11, 2011 17:01:31 GMT -5
^lol did he succeed
Areas of Istanbul? Like streets and neighborhoods?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jan 11, 2011 18:39:39 GMT -5
No, he didn't succeed, the girl he wanted didn't like him. apparently she prefers brunettes, she wasn't good enough for him, he was handsome in a really sweet vulnerable way.
I think in Istanbul they have got an area called Bosnak Koy im not a 100% sure, but i know there are areas named for bosnians not just streets.
They also have the belgrad forest in Istanbul. LOL
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Post by terroreign on Jan 12, 2011 1:56:55 GMT -5
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Jan 12, 2011 9:29:08 GMT -5
Possibly yes, they were.
Turkey is just a melting pot of many different ethnicities and backgrounds. All calling themselves Turks.
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Post by toskaliku on Jan 12, 2011 13:51:07 GMT -5
These areas are not named after the actual demographic but by the people who built the area, meaning the labor used to clear the forest, or lay the street. Hence Arnavutkoy doesnt necessarily mean "Albanian village" in the sense of being purely Albanian inhabited. It means that Albanian laboreres were settled there to work on the building of that zone. These people, once the labor was done, often returned to their native towns and cities. The regions themselves found swarms of other ethnicities entering them (Jews, Cerkez, Greeks, etc. etc.)
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Post by terroreign on Jan 13, 2011 4:48:00 GMT -5
I can picture it now; bearded Serbs hunching around in Istanbul at night scrounging through people's trashcans loool Yes, but whether they stayed or not you cannot say for sure. Btw the Belgrade forest looks very beautiful, it'd be a nice place to take a date or something.
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Post by hellboy87 on Jan 17, 2011 23:16:13 GMT -5
DY,Turkics were not Christians before they became Muslims.
I don't know about Turkics being Pagans but I know they were shamans in the past.I think for most Turkics,they converted from shamanism to Islam.
And yes,there are many Bosniaks in Istanbul.There are also many Bosniaks in Bursa.In fact,Bursa is known for its Balkan styled villages.
The European Muslim refugees from former Ottoman lands were resettled all over Turkey.The southeast region received the least amount of refugees though.
As for the 60,000 Armenians,these are the ones who are Christians and are descendants of the remaining Armenians once the Republic of Turkey was established.
There are actually more Armenians.I'm talking about the Crypto-Armenians : Turk on the outside,but Armenian on the inside.
Some say that many Turks who have been converting to Christianity in the recent years are these Crypto-Armenians.
Krivosanin,I don't know why did you say Serbians are one of the largest groups,did you mean BOSNIAK?
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Post by terroreign on Jan 18, 2011 2:57:39 GMT -5
^Serbians Bosniaks, same thing hellboy...it's like Crypto Armenians and regular Armenians let's say..
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Jan 18, 2011 8:23:42 GMT -5
hellboy87, I thought Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning was being rather misleading so good you made those points.
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