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Post by mansterofsouli on Jan 31, 2011 5:55:09 GMT -5
whats your problem with the video 1821- a new documentary rex ?? the turks killed some native people and brough turkalbanians to peloponnese. the greeks in morea fought the turk and turkalbanians. greek armatoli and greek kleftes who fleet to the mountains came back from there to support in the greek war of independence. There is no such thing as turkalbanians! They were just arvanites who were muslim, not a different ethnicity. Arvanites were the majority of the kleftes and armatoli, and were orthodox. Bullshit. On what grounds do you make this claim? You pull that out of your ass?
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Jan 31, 2011 6:47:39 GMT -5
Hey Bugsfunny,welcome to the crazy house.
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Hellenas
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 31, 2011 6:51:19 GMT -5
I watched some parts of this documentary and I have to say that this channel, Skai channel, belongs to Americans so it says what they believe and not what the Hellenes believe, it looks more like Albanian propaganda. They speak of "Albanians in Peloponnesos" not of Arvanites. I disagree with this "american" serial about 1821. I agree with Patrinos that the Arvanites were the 8% and no more than that, even if Albanians band that there were "many albanians" in Hellas. ARVANITESPosted by Patrinos:To clear some things about Arvanites, their population and role in the Revolution. I'll use the sourses by this greek blog,translated via google,and me. kleftouria.blogspot.com/About the population: Let us therefore begin with the question of population Arvaniton especially the 19th century when the language was spoken almost universally by Greeks with Arvanitic origin wand was easier to "discrimination", starting, not only to the generally accepted and comprehensive book K. Biris "Arvanites, the Dorians the younger Greeks, the history of Greek Arvaniton. Biris (Arvanitis himself) in the capital of the demographic review highlights the big mistake of those foreign (consuls, travelers) dealt with this issue which unscientificaly easily identified the mixture of the indigenous paroikous Arvanites were now bilingual as Albanians. ( 1) Let's see what Johann Georg von Hahn wrote (Albaneische Studien, 1854) considered the father of alvanology and lived in Greece more than 20 years since 1843 as in 1869 he served successively as consul of Austria in Ioannina, Syros and finally in Athens as Consul General.. The table listed in the above book states in place of the population of Arvanites in Greece and ends in total 173,000 Arvanites when Greece was in accordance with the population census in 1856 1,096,810. But Hahn in his foreword, which he wrote afterwards refers to his mistake he did in his list when he said about 10.000 Arvanites in Spercheios area and another 5.000 in Phocis, where as Mpiris admits(2), never existed! He also writes in the foreword that many questioned his counts like Finlay(he've written about the Revolution and not only) who counted the Arvanites 100.000(3) even if strangely in his book(4) he raises the number to 200.000 with out analysing the distribution. Accepting Hahn's writings as worthy being an albanologist and living in Greece so many years the number of Arvanites after his corrections is 158.000 which is about 14% of the population of the free Greece of 1854(Peloponnesus,Sterea Ellas,and Cycladic islands). Analytically Hahn writes: 55.000 Arvanites in Attica and Boetoia(plus Salamina) in total population of 116.021. In south Euvoia 25.000 Arvanites in 72.368 total population in the island. In northern Andros(5) 6000 Arvanites in total amount of citizens 19.376. In Argolis and in the islands of Argosaronic(Ydra,Spetses,Poros) he mention 47.000 Arvanites in total amount of 75.501 citizens of which the monolingual Hellenophones are found mainly west and north of Argos and in the two centers Argos and Nauplion. Also he refers to the 15.000 Arvanites in Achaia and Korinthia in total population of 129.000. Those in Achaia live mainly in the so called Arvanitohoria or Zoubatohoria in the western Panachaikos and some villages in Dymis and Fares municipalities. In Korinthia the language exists in the eastern part and in the area of today Sykion municipality. For the rest Peloponnesus he mention with questionmark 10.000 Arvanites who are located in small group of villages like these of the Soulimohoria Messinias(the Ntredhes), in the area of Zaraka in Lakonia, and in some villages in Hraia municipality in Arcadia(Paloumba etc) Mpiris also mention and with Alfred Philippson(Swedish) who travelled in Peloponnesus in 1889 writing the «Zur Ethnographie des Peloponnes ,Pettersmans Mitteilungen»,1890. This researcher(who studied the ethnography of Greece,and especially Peloponnesus) counted the number of Arvanites in Peloponnisos and in the islands of Argosaronikos 90,253 in a total population of the area 730.000, meaning 12% of the whole area, and 9.5 of Peloponnesians. He also counts the total population of Arvanites in Greece of 1889(that is Greece with out Macedonia,Thrace,Crete and Dodecanese,and of course with out the Greek of Minor Asia and Pontos!). in the number of 224.000 when the population of free Greece was 2.187.208,that means 10% of the population were Arvanites. In the same year a Patrinos doctor H.P. Koryllos wrote the "Ethnographia tis Peloponnesou,Patra,1890) after traveling throughout Peloponnesos and collected information having in mind opinions of mayor and parliamentals he reached in the conclusion that the number of Arvanites in Peloponnesos and the Argosaronic islands was 71.037(50.352 for Peloponnesos and 20.685 for the islands) that means in a total population of that area of 730.000 Arvanites make the 9.5% and for Peloponnesos the 7%. Also the national British "Handbook of Greece,1918,Naval Staff-Intelligence Division,p.72) analysing Greece's athnography says that Arvanites are not more than the 8.5% of the population of the Greek state.upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Pelopones_ethnic.JPGPhilippson's map.Very acurate I can say.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Jan 31, 2011 10:31:29 GMT -5
I thought it was sponsored by the Bank of Greece well...maybe it hurts jut a little and is giving you closer to exact truth ...or do you Greeks have that denialism as Serbs thats olnly to make you understand that Arvanitis is same as Alvanos disagree or not its in your head and there is more to come ..more actual events ...not documentaries ... now keep in mind ....you might have Alvanos in you....like Karta
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Jan 31, 2011 12:31:44 GMT -5
yea ...this new documentary has many Greeks all roused up on message boards ,blogs and even facebook all that's needed is the GOC to denounce it .....
its understandable ...sometimes even little truths hurt
if your a whining Greek here :
Μπορείτε να κάνετε έγγραφη καταγγελία στο ΕΣΡ : ΕΘΝΙΚΟ ΣΥΜΒΟΥΛΙΟ ΡΑΔΙΟΤΗΛΕΟΡΑΣΗΣ (Ε.Σ.Ρ.) Πανεπιστημίου & Αμερικής 5, 10564 Αθήνα Τηλ.: 210-3354500, Fax: 210-3319881 Email:ncrtv@otenet.gr
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Feb 1, 2011 4:56:03 GMT -5
I watched some parts of this documentary and I have to say that this channel, Skai channel, belongs to Americans so it says what they believe and not what the Hellenes believe, it looks more like Albanian propaganda. They speak of "Albanians in Peloponnesos" not of Arvanites. I disagree with this "american" serial about 1821. Wasn't it apparent? I haven't watched it but i believe you 100%. A clearly Anglo-American channel promoting greek history is highly suspicious. Anyone watched how they ridicule the "Tsolias" in their program "Ellinofreneia"? They want to promote Greko-Albanian unity while in the same time creating Greko-Slav hatred, that's obvious. Our greatest enemy is the "albanian" inside our own selves. Once we change this and become GREEK again, we will have a bright future. HELLENISM is here to stay, but actions are better than words.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Feb 1, 2011 9:59:09 GMT -5
^go back to sf
but you would make a great grek milosevic
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Post by socio on Feb 1, 2011 15:43:41 GMT -5
Very likely he is, but still I don't understand your question ! What makes you think he's not ?! Albanians constituted a large part of population of Greece in the 19th century ! I don't think many Greek people know that foustanella is traditional arvanitic outfit. What you say is right, almost. But there were not any albanians, because there was no country named "Albania" yet. There was no discrimination between greek and arvanites, who were a great part of the greek population. Arvanites fought for Greece, their country. Come on, Bugs-bunny, be serious, of course there were Albanians in the 19th century and of course there was a country named Albania back then. Europeans, those you call 'Arvanites', called 'Albanians' and distinguished them from the Hellenes. So of course there was discrimination. As for fustanella, of course its an Albanian costume (no arvanitis) and Greeks in the past, unlike the present, were not embarassed to publicly show it as such, ;D
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Post by tsompanos on Feb 1, 2011 15:55:59 GMT -5
I think albanians should stop try claiming everything greek as albanian, we get it you want to be greek but sadly for you no you aint.
That kids fustanella only goes to the knees in other threads you complain and say its "fake fustanella" and what not plus albanians dont even wear those hats, but yep the term whatever direction the wind blows suits albanians 100% f**king pathetic.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Feb 1, 2011 19:36:44 GMT -5
hello my grekos
make sure you watch 1821 Documentary for Tuesday
you will maybe learn the truth about Greek Orthodox hierarchy and the ottoman connections
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Feb 1, 2011 19:39:52 GMT -5
alb inside you ....what slit you wrist and let the blood drain ? I thought you were proud Serbian ...now you want back in ? Patrinos wont let you
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Feb 2, 2011 1:55:51 GMT -5
Ancient Greeks=Modern Slavics=Modern Germanics
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Feb 2, 2011 9:20:29 GMT -5
Rex,I am baffled by the energy you have put into this .... yet you can't come up with anything of interest yet..
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Feb 2, 2011 9:27:14 GMT -5
Just as I thought and have read many many times...this documentary says... the turks slaughtered the local Greeks and moved them out and replaced them with Albanians... I have always maintained that our lands were repopulated with Muslim Albanians... Now these mongrels try to tell us they were always there.. Yet in Greece today the only Albanians are the economic migrants and thanks to Zervas he removed some remnants back to where there were since 1200..ad
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Feb 2, 2011 18:20:55 GMT -5
In the second episode, the ideas of Hellenism and progress, opposite from those of the Porte and the Patriarchate who cared about taxation, population control and the maintenance of their power, were brought by christian merchants who were inspired by the French Revolution. Meanwhile Kolokotroni/Bitheguris and other kleftes were excommunicated by the Church and faced persecution and rejection by the local population.
The merchant class that fostered the idea of a free nation (multiethnic nation as Velestinli advocated) via Greek education had nothing in common with the fighters of the Revolution. Korais was ecstatic at linking the idea making the Arvanite, Vlach, Turkish, Jewish and Slavic populations of Greece as direct descendant...s of the Ancient Hellenes. He even coined the concept "Hellene" instead of "Grec"...
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Feb 2, 2011 19:45:42 GMT -5
You're trying to sum up all of Greek history in 200 years ....
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Feb 3, 2011 8:36:25 GMT -5
Then you hav typical grek response ;D ;D ;D ;D
and with a heart attack of backfiring...ahhhahahhah
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Feb 3, 2011 8:51:54 GMT -5
You should write down who wrote this ?It's missing all the ......
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Feb 3, 2011 8:52:57 GMT -5
its got a few .... .. .
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Feb 3, 2011 9:12:14 GMT -5
The point is ..it's not you who wrote it. I know you too well.
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