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Post by la3ar on Feb 8, 2011 22:25:54 GMT -5
Is he of slavic origin? Perhaps rooted to where the Slavs came from.
Many arguments claim he was greek, macedonian and even albanian.
What would be concidered in todays standards?
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Post by laughingriever on Feb 10, 2011 1:00:03 GMT -5
Alexander most definitely was not of slavic origin, he was born sometime in 350 B.C.E., way before the waves of slavs started crashing in Balkan. His father, Philip, was the kind of Macedonia, the macedonians at the time being roughly related to the greeks. His mother Olympia was a princess of Epirus, a region now I believe in modern Albania (according to a biography I recently read about him). The best bet is to say he was Macedonian. I would not say that he was "Albanian" because at the time there was no Albania as we think of it today, at best he was part Epirot/Illyrian from his mother's side. Today he would be considered fyromian, I guess... Although sometimes it's really difficult to match the standards of that age to ours. By analogy, today Jesus would be locked up in a room with white cushioned walls for his paranoid delusions and Buddha and Socrates couldn't get a teaching job at a university because they never published anything.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 10, 2011 4:44:21 GMT -5
One thing that's for sure: he wasn't a Shqiptar.
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Post by laughingriever on Feb 10, 2011 7:29:54 GMT -5
Actually, the only thing that's for "sure" is that he wasn't a slav.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 10, 2011 7:39:54 GMT -5
Simply due to the enigmatic nature of the Shqiptars? That's a cop-out
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Post by Why? on Feb 10, 2011 9:30:40 GMT -5
One thing that's for sure: he wasn't a Shqiptar. Right, he was a Monte-Negro! ;D At least we know that the Albanians have origins from the paleo-Balkanic [1] peoples, unlike the Slavs.
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Post by laughingriever on Feb 10, 2011 10:52:46 GMT -5
Simply due to the enigmatic nature of the Shqiptars? That's a cop-out I explicitly said that I don't think it's correct to consider Alexander "Shqiptar". And he certainly was no slav, your sarmatians and scythians didn't come riding in on their ponies till many centuries later. Seems to me the only people to take the cop out on the "enigmatic" nature of Shqiptars are greeks and serbs, according to whom we are just mountain turks or chechens, respectively.
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Post by la3ar on Feb 10, 2011 17:16:11 GMT -5
One thing that's for sure: he wasn't a Shqiptar. Right, he was a Monte-Negro! ;D At least we know that the Albanians have origins from the paleo-Balkanic [1] peoples, unlike the Slavs. Apparently you have an ethnicity, eureka! You really didn’t last long in this forum disguising yourself as an intellect.
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Post by Why? on Feb 10, 2011 20:24:25 GMT -5
Apparently you have an ethnicity, eureka! You really didn’t last long in this forum disguising yourself as an intellect. I expected such reactions, it shows up that you have an ethnicity, because I don't. Albanians hate me more than everybody else, give me some time... Truly I hate nationalism, but by the other side I hate even persons who insult or lie about ethnic issues. I think that Alexander The Great was a pure Ancient Greek, but I also know for sure that if he was not Greek, at 99% of chances he was a proto-Albanian. There's nothing ethnocentric in my previous comment, I just don't like when the Slavs tell to the Albanians who was this ancient person from the Balkans or this other person, because the Albanians are native here, the Slavs aren't!
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Post by la3ar on Feb 10, 2011 20:36:11 GMT -5
Apparently you have an ethnicity, eureka! You really didn’t last long in this forum disguising yourself as an intellect. I expected such reactions, it shows up that you have an ethnicity, because I don't. Albanians hate me more than everybody else, give me some time... Truly I hate nationalism, but by the other side I hate even persons who insult or lie about ethnic issues. I think that Alexander The Great was a pure Ancient Greek, but I also know for sure that if he was not Greek, at 99% of chances he was a proto-Albanian. There's nothing ethnocentric in my previous comment, I just don't like when the Slavs tell to the Albanians who was this ancient person from the Balkans or this other person, because the Albanians are native here, the Slavs aren't! I for one am tired of that topic, theres many threads based on that. That aside I dont intend to insult you simply because of you ethnic background.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 11, 2011 1:52:58 GMT -5
Apparently you have an ethnicity, eureka! You really didn’t last long in this forum disguising yourself as an intellect. I expected such reactions, it shows up that you have an ethnicity, because I don't. Albanians hate me more than everybody else, give me some time... Truly I hate nationalism, but by the other side I hate even persons who insult or lie about ethnic issues. I think that Alexander The Great was a pure Ancient Greek, but I also know for sure that if he was not Greek, at 99% of chances he was a proto-Albanian.There's nothing ethnocentric in my previous comment, I just don't like when the Slavs tell to the Albanians who was this ancient person from the Balkans or this other person, because the Albanians are native here, the Slavs aren't! lol one of the stupidest comments I've read here for a while. 'If he wasn't a Greek, which he was, 99% chance he was *insert arbitrary group here*' Nothing 100% about Albanians being native. You guys left no mark on history, so you don't get the privilege of being considered in such context.
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Post by Hellenas on Feb 11, 2011 5:09:39 GMT -5
Alexandros ho Megas was a Hellene, he was not "Illyrian" neither "Paeonian" but ancient Hellenic Macedonian. He spoke Hellenic, he had Hellenic manners, he kept the Hellenic traditions and he believed to the ancient Hellenic religion like the rest of the Hellenes of Macedonia. Scopjans and Albanians want to steal him from his Hellenic people...
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Post by Why? on Feb 11, 2011 17:19:20 GMT -5
lol one of the stupidest comments I've read here for a while. 'If he wasn't a Greek, which he was, 99% chance he was *insert arbitrary group here*' Nothing 100% about Albanians being native. You guys left no mark on history, so you don't get the privilege of being considered in such context. OK, let me explain to you. Ancient Balkans was inhabited by Hellenes in the south and Thracians and Illyrians in the north. Macedonia was between them and had a mixed population. If Alexander was not Macedonian(Greek) he was Thracian or Illyrian 'minority' in Ancient Macedonia. Since Albanians are native in the Balkans but aren't Greek, can be Thracian, Illyrian or more probably a mixture between Thracian and Illyrian. So if he wasn't Greek(Macedonian) he was Thraco-Illyrian(Later called Albanian). Alexandros ho Megas was a Hellene, he was not "Illyrian" neither "Paeonian" but ancient Hellenic Macedonian. He spoke Hellenic, he had Hellenic manners, he kept the Hellenic traditions and he believed to the ancient Hellenic religion like the rest of the Hellenes of Macedonia. Scopjans and Albanians want to steal him from his Hellenic people... That's the point of all, he used to describe himself many times as Hellenic, that's why there's not too much to talk about, he told on his own his ethnicity.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 12, 2011 22:04:12 GMT -5
There exists nothing to prove Illyrians and Thracians weren't just Hellenic tribes themselves....
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Post by tsompanos on Feb 13, 2011 11:12:35 GMT -5
There exists nothing to prove Illyrians and Thracians weren't just Hellenic tribes themselves.... Someone not from the balkans would probably see no difference but both but little is known about thracian and illyrian language however as for thracians they got so heavy hellencied they basically started talking the same greek as the rest of greeks. But on the other hand the phrygians who where basically thrown out to asia minor from around thracia around 1000 bc by the macedonians their language was almost identical to ancient greek
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Post by Why? on Feb 13, 2011 12:31:10 GMT -5
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Post by kartadolofonos on Feb 14, 2011 4:05:28 GMT -5
And here is Illyria (Illyris) and Epirus on a map: Mythology aside, the Illyrians called the Dorians of Epirus Graikhos, because the native name for the people of Epirus was Graii. We know this from Aristotle, who lived 384-322 BC and told us all about it. Graikhos became the Latin word Graeci, and eventually today's Greek. If you like Greek mythology, you like Hellen. Hellen had three sons — Aeolus, Dorus, and Xuthus. Xuthus, in turn, had two sons — Ion and Achaeus. In other words, Hellen was the ancestor of all Greeks — the Aeolians, Dorians, Ionians, and Achaeans. Thus the Greeks are the Hellenes. And when you use the term Hellas, you refer to mainland Greece.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 14, 2011 11:00:27 GMT -5
By Mythology both Illyrians ( *Illo/ιλλω=Sun burned; page 69) and Thracians ( *Thrakis/Θράσης=Audacity; page 44) are also Hellenic by origins. (*=source is Antonije Skokljev - "Bogovi Olimpa Iz Srbije" or "Olymbic gods are from Serbia" by A.S. used for many toponyms)Mythological foundation
In Greek mythology, Thrax (by his name simply the quintessential Thracian) was regarded as one of the reputed sons of the god Ares.[5] In the Alcestis, Euripides mentions that one of the names of Ares himself was Thrax since he was regarded as the patron of Thrace (his golden or gilded shield was kept in his temple at Bistonia in Thrace).[6] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians#Mythological_foundationIllyrians in Greek mythology
In Greek mythology, Illyrius was the son of Cadmus and Harmonia who eventually ruled Illyria and became the eponymous ancestor of the whole Illyrian people.[12] Illyrius had multiple sons (Encheleus, Autarieus, Dardanus, Maedus, Taulas and Perrhabeus) and daughters (Partho, Daortho, Dassaro and others). From these, sprang the Taulantii, Parthini, Dardani, Enchelaeae, Autariates, Dassaretae and the Daors. Autareius had a son Pannonius or Paeon and these had sons Scordiscus and Triballus.[2] A later version of it is having as parents Polyphemus and Galatea that give birth to Celtus, Galas, and Illyrius.[13] The second myth could stem perhaps from the similarities to Celts and Gaul en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians#Illyrians_in_Greek_mythologyDorian Epirus is separate from southern Illyria while ancient Dorian Macedonia is separate from Thrace and Illyria (Strabo clearly compared Epirus, southern Illyria and Macedonia in terms of language, religion and culture). Alexander was without any doubt Hellenic and whoever served in his troops (including Illyrian Taulanti whom according to some were 1/4 of his troops).
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Post by Why? on Feb 14, 2011 12:02:31 GMT -5
I wasn't saying that Epirus was Illyrian. I think that region was Greek, as probably even Macedonia.
And about mythology, I can say that Illyrians were Celtic if I would be so stupid to define an ethnicity just about mythology. You know the story of Galas + Illyria?
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 14, 2011 12:34:46 GMT -5
They are still Greek even by second account. A later version of it is having as parents Polyphemus and Galatea that give birth to Celtus, Galas, and Illyrius.[13] The second myth could stem perhaps from the similarities to Celts and Gauls en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians#Illyrians_in_Greek_mythologyThat is also later version thus not the original one.
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