rex362
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Post by rex362 on Mar 29, 2011 12:17:26 GMT -5
"The special forces" made shoes with leather of Skopje"
"The Greek Helsinki Commission sued the 39 soldiers OYK" The members of the Underwater Commando of Greece in the parade last year, on March 25, said racist slogans will end up in court. The Greek Helsinki Commission filed a criminal complaint for the 39 soldiers of the group, who are required to account for violations of Article 2 of the anti-racist law. Just a year ago the Commission headed by Greece, Panayotis Dimitras, petitioned the Attorney General under the published text and video of the daily newspaper Eleftherotypia, to punish the soldiers. The trial will begin in six months (20 September 2011) and members of the Helsinki Commission in Greece consider that the decision taken will be very important for the further course of events. "... With your skin Albanian purposefully make shoes, were just some of the racist cries of special underwater groups of the Greek army during the parade for the anniversary of Greek Independence. As revealed by the newspaper Eleftherotypia, the soldiers shouted slogans at the dictates of their leader. A day later, the officer team was punished and some of the soldiers. gdailynews.wordpress.com/2011/03/29/%CF%83%CE%BA%CE%BF%CF%80%CE%B9%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%AC-%CE%BC%CE%BC%CE%B5-%CE%BF%CE%B9-%CE%B5%CE%B9%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AD%CF%82-%CE%B4%CF%85%CE%BD%CE%AC%CE%BC%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%82-%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%85/
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Post by macmako on Apr 26, 2011 9:55:59 GMT -5
Bizarre. What was the purpose of shouting these senseless slurs? I can not think of any.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 27, 2011 4:41:16 GMT -5
Those guys were not at their local cafe, but were on an official parade, with explicit leutenants to command them and give them orders. If they act in such a way in this situation, how are they gonna act in the battle field?
In greece, we have had enough of those "patriots" who will run in total anarchy like chicken, when s**t hits the fan.
Of course, the western-owned media in Greece, have been advocating anti-slav sentiment consistently for over 200 years, and it is natural that in the end, some idiots will fall for the bait.
Their plan is identical in Albania, Yugoslavia, Greece, Bulgaria, and its aim is to create ultra-nationalistic backward sub-cultures with no chance of working together.
We, the idiots of the balkans, tend to only see the tree and methodically miss the forest.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Apr 27, 2011 9:38:01 GMT -5
This is a very broad statement, but there's some truth to it. First of all there never really were "anti-Slav" sentiments promoted in Greece. About 100 years ago it was anti-Bulgarian sentiment, and now more recently, it has shifted to become more of an anti-Macedonian sentiment. Virtually it's the same thing really, as when this anti-Bulgarian sentiment was promoted in Greece.. Macedonians and Bulgarians back then were still the same people (ie. Macedonians ethnically identified as Bulgarians). At the same time, Greece has never promoted anti-Serbian sentiment.. but then again how could they!? Greece and Serbia were the greatest of allies, united against the mean ol' Bulgars (this obviously includes the Macedonians).
So to say that there was "anti-Slav" sentiment promoted in Greece is waaaay to broad. It doesn't really say much, and it's not an accurate assessment.
It is true that their aim has been to de-stabilize the region by creating a variety of different small states to act as buffer zones. Hence why each Balkan country has a smaller duplicate country as it's neighbour.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 28, 2011 2:41:35 GMT -5
Aziz, you are chasing ghosts again. Greek-Serbian friendship was an English invention (of late 1917) in order to weaken the German-backed Bulgaria. The english dont want a huge yugoslavia either (most of the time) so the obvious alternative is to try create artificial (and thus fragile) friendship between totally unrelated nations (Greece-Serbia). That's all. A mere coincidence. If you could make a simple experiment, and unite Bulgaria with Yugoslavia, you could see Greece's (England's) true stance regarding Greek-Slav relations. A greek (or a an Englishman) cannot distinguish between Serb/Croat/Bulgarian/Makedonian/Belorussian/Ukranian. To us,(them) you are all the same. So you inter-slav conflicts (like your obsession about Makedonians being bulgarians, or other such technicalities) does not interest nobody, but the ones who want to use you.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Apr 28, 2011 4:08:57 GMT -5
I agree with your view on the supposed Greek-Serb friendship pyrros. If some people feel that it's there, then I'm fine with that. But there's no major cultural or racial base for it. Serbs are closer to Bulgarians and Macedonians than they are to Greeks. Politics aside, Greeks are quite different to south Slavs.
It seems to be a fragile friendship too. I remember last year, when there was a fight between the Greek and Serbian basketball teams, the youtube comments were rife with arguments between Serbs and Greeks. Greeks were calling Serbs "Slavs" in a derogatory sense (just like they call Macedonians and Bulgarians), Serbs were calling Greeks other names in return. All it took was one conflict in a basketball friendly match, and an Internet war erupted.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 28, 2011 6:31:00 GMT -5
The night of the incident i was having dinner in Nish @ Kod Rajka (the most famous tavern in Nish, notoriously known for rostlj "southern style" type of food). Nobody talked about the incident, and if i had shown up dressed with a t-shirt with the greek flag, or smth, most probably they would buy me a shot of slivovica. (At some point i got an SMS by my sister horrified about the incident, like the end of thr world had come). That's the kind of people they are. I saw a documentary about a greek cemetary in Pirot (from WWI) and the locals there were literally CRYING out of love for the Greek nation. Huge love. They know a lot about Greece and they love Greeks with all their hearts. And this is the same in Leskovac, Nis, Novi Sad, Brcko, Banja Luka, Bijeljina, Visegrad, everywhere.
If OTOH, that night some Serb was in a greek tavern, wearing his/her Serbian T-shirt, the most likely outcome i can think of is a new brawl between him and the greeks.
That's the way it is.
Serbians/Bulgarians although much more powerful (and IMHO better people, more generous than greeks), for some reason they look like they really love Greeks. Greeks OTOH, are obviously less powerful, on the surface they look less generous, more malicious, worse people in general, louder, less polite, actually they act as if they hate Slavs, but even deeper, they do not hate no-one in reality.
Our inner psyche is the result of many many many unfortunate (mostly unknown) stories that left their stamp on our souls. IMO Greeks amongst all balkanians are the harder to study. We are very weird people. But we are harmless (just like the Albanians) so everybody loves us.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 28, 2011 9:03:08 GMT -5
1st off, i dont think we are direct descendants of the ancient greeks. At least, speaking linguistically. We have no connection with our land, our animals, our nature, even our own very towns and villages. It seems we came from somewhere else. Or that we haven't been speaking the greek tang for quite some centuries.
OTOH, comparing the greek heritage (language included) with other non-slavic cultures, like Romanians, Albanians, Hungarians, it is easy to see, that the only culture with the guts to stand shoulder to shoulder with the slavs was the greek culture. (Hungarians name the week days after slavic words, albanians/romanians almost speak a dialect of slavic, essentially).
So, yes, the carriers, the hosts of this civilization, we, the modern greeks, are not very important, but our "cargo" seems to be doing its job, just by itself.
It is very complicated.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Apr 28, 2011 9:27:34 GMT -5
This is false. The English may have supported and encouraged that, but Greek-Serbian friendship is something that came about earlier than 1917. It was truly solidified during the Second Balkan War, when both Serbia and Greece wanted to keep the parts of Macedonia which they had occupied while Bulgaria was left to push the Turks outside of Europe alone. In doing so, Serbia in particular broke its agreement. The Serbs were to receive a piece of Macedonia for doing their part against the Turks, HOWEVER, they got greedy and decided to keep all of Vardar. That is when Bulgaria attacked, breaking the alliance.. and that’s when Bulgaria was facing Serbia, Greece, a Montenegrin contingent, Romania, and what was left of the Ottoman Empire.. all on its own. That’s when the Greek-Serbian thing became a reality, they both had a common enemy ie. Bulgaria. They both wanted to take what was rightfully Bulgarian, and they managed to do it because Bulgaria was simply unable to face 4-5 opponents all at the same time. If Serbia and Greece faced Bulgaria alone, they would have likely been humiliated. So I guess you can thank Romania and Turkey for stepping in, because the whole of the Greek army was annihilated and we were just about to focus all our might on Serbia. Anyway, that’s when it started NOT in 1917. You really need to read more.
If*greek or an Englishman has lived in either of these countries, and spent some time there they’d be able to distinguish between us easily. Some of the travelers/authors had spent months, others years living in the Balkans studying the people. So yes, if it’s an Englishman or a Greek that has never set foot outside of their own back yard.. then yeah, they probably won’t be able to distinguish between us, but if it’s someone who has travelled those areas and even lived there, then they sure as hell would be able to pin point who’s who.
I know what I’ve read; I know what I’ve seen. Practically all neutral sources support the views that I’ve expressed here on these forums. Any politically inspired fairytales from the time of Tito, or even before him, are just that.. fairytales, they hold no historical accuracy. Any person with half a brain and just a mild interest on the matter can go pick up a book, or two, or ten and they’ll see the truth for what it is.
Only when all facts are exposed, and when we no longer hide behind ignorance or someone’s political agenda can we know the truth.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Apr 28, 2011 9:42:37 GMT -5
Romanians used the Cyrillic alphabet up until 300 years ago or so. Their official language, the language of the church, the language of politics, the language of business etc. was Old Bulgarian (ie. Old Church Slavonic) until about 300 years ago as well. It is only in the 1800's that their government decided to "purify" their language and make it as close as possible to Latin. Many Slavic words were replaced with Latin ones, and France was the inspiration for Romania.. they aimed to emulate France in every way possible.
Anyway, I've dated 4 Romanian girls.. one I was with for more than 3 years, and I've been to Romania. I've seen their church icons, and the text that is written on them is Old Bulgarian (ie. Old Church Slavonic) even today. Romanians also use the term "bodaprosti". I've asked them to explain why they use that term, they're unable to. I've asked them to explain it's meaning to me, they are unable to.. yet they still use it. Now, the only possibility for them is to have obtained this Slavic influence from Bulgaria. I mean, what they call "bodaprosti" in Slavic would be "Bog da prosti".. however, the only Slavic culture that has ruled the lands of Romania for centuries was Bulgaria which is why they must have gotten all that from us.
Regardless, the point is that Romanian culture was a fair bit similar to Slavic culture up until some 200-300 years ago or so.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 28, 2011 9:44:22 GMT -5
The only one with an apparent political agenda here is you. by far.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Apr 28, 2011 9:49:09 GMT -5
The only agenda that I have is to unveil the truths that have been obscured by a variety of different political agendas.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 28, 2011 23:05:28 GMT -5
Nope. Your agenda is to make everyone here so bored that you will end up talking alone to yourself.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 29, 2011 21:10:33 GMT -5
^ Pyrro, Asen never talks the truth, as you already know. His a spin doctor of Bulgarian romantism that was initiated by the founder known as Venelin (Rutherian).
To Nikola:
You cannot base an insignificant sporting moment between both nations, this was an incident between two sporting individuals. As you know, we see rivalling fans getting bashed at pubs after AFL games. I don't look at stupid childish sporting games to see whether nations get along, l look at what governments do to support others during hardships, like the Greek support to serbia during the lastest Balkan wars or the Serbian assistance during the Greek fires. I remember years ago when Iran played US in the world cup and before kick-off both sides exchanged flowers and gifts + hugs to each other in front of the television, but behind the scenes they want to kill each other.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Apr 29, 2011 21:47:42 GMT -5
Novi, I wasn't talking about the players fighting. Fights happen all the time in sport, and they mean nothing. It's just the heat of the moment thing, and the players probably have a beer together afterwards. I was talking about the Greek and Serbian Youtube reaction to the fight. It was WW3. That "friendship" was thrown out the window, and all sorts of hatred came out of the closet. Here, let me quote some of the comments from one of the videos where the comments were not disabled. Greek comments:SLAV GYPSIES!!!.. by cool13paoarouraiosTHUMBS UP FOR THE AMERICANS WHO BOMBED YUGOSLAVIA IN '99! THOSE FAGGOT SERBIAN LOWLIFES DESERVED IT! by TheStathis1985fucking serbians you are not our brothers !! you are turkish and gay ! fucking orthodox brothers !!! fuck you ! by arkou7ohahaha what the fuck is wrong with krstic? gayest thing i've ever seen oahahaha well, i am not surprised from serbia's attitude. always causing drouble all over the world but they always end up bitten up. by Xceptional1983brothers?? xaxaxaxaxa fuck teodosic krstic keseli mothers... gay serbians pussies... by giagoulas13fucking serbian pigs we are not brothers with you , kosovo is albania !!!! by thermiiiSerbian comments:fuck u religon dosnt mean we are brothers u stupid fuck greeks are fags dont compere them with holly serbian race srbija cccc by RapInBloodThe Greeks never was our Brothers. They was ever f**ing gipsis and uglyest Nation between the albanians. How they can be our Brothers wen they acceptet Kosovo as an Indipendent Country? Nenad Krstic, great so, Mad that you this fat nigga didn`t hit better.. by nikenjfuck u greece pigs .. serbs are the strongest people... by slavija23Etc, etc, etc. There are hundreds of comments like this. If you don't believe me, see for yourself: www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=ste4A1v5W-o&page=4
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 29, 2011 23:18:12 GMT -5
Novi bro, sorry, but what Nikola says is 100% true. Serbian-Greek friendship was designed from the start in order to be fragile. Just like the hatred between Bosniaks (=Serbs)/Stokavian Croats (=Serbs)/western Ekavica Bulgarians (=Serbs) and Bosnian-Serbian Serbs is artificial as well.
We, as Greeks, are very very far, before establishing sincere friendship with anyone.
Let me tell you this. Everybody knows that Cretan and Cypriot cultures are by far better than the Greek one. Their banks (Bank of Cyprus), their shipping companies (ANEK, Minoan), their telecom companies (Cyta, Forthnet) simply were pioneers (Yugoslavia used to connect with the internet back in 1991 with a leased line 9600 bps directly to Heraklion/Crete) or just better in their attitude. Well, *EVERYBODY* hates Cypriots!!! I mean we dont accept the creme de la creme of Hellenism, how are we supposed to accept the most advanced nation of the Balkans (the most important nation in the field of technical civilization/industrialization)?
All, Serbs and Cypriots and Cretans and Bulgarians and Bosniaks and Croats are more advanced cultures than the Greeks, yet we dont accept no one. We only know how to b1tch behind other people's back. Sincerety is forbidden.
Now let me tell you a little about the incident. The greek sportcaster/media, almost immediately started a polemic rhetoric. The very same speaker was was covering the game, made comments like "Krstic run away, ha ha ha, look at him hahaha", in other words, a totally chechen behavior, aimed only at showing off our absent culture and spirituality. The very moment the greek speaker was fueling hatred, i was in a tavern in Nish and everyone was friendly to me, and even if there was a war between Serbia and Greece they would still try to protect me, since i was obviously in the weak position. And the Serbs would do the same with every nation. The slav tradition of war prohibits being cruel to the weak.
Let me also tell you how this all stopped. The Greek minister of tourism, came out and said that such a stance is really harmful for the greek tourism in northern Greece and the whole episode was forgotten almost immediately.
Now tell me this.... If the English media in Greece, really meant to perpetuate this, wouldn't be a piece of cake for them? Of course it would be. Which means that the English leadership *NEEDS* the greek-serbian friendship.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 29, 2011 23:39:58 GMT -5
(at its extreme, i would imagine, that the whole thing was set-up as an experiment, some greek player might have been bribed to start the fight, knowing that serbs are very easy to involve in brawls)
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Post by Novi Pazar on May 1, 2011 5:20:02 GMT -5
Well, if those dumb idiots from the serb and greek camps look at what both sides did to each other, from the past and present, they would be ashamed and be apologizing to each other over these childish comments posted......morons.
Nikola, these comments are from peasant villagers, same type l hear after AFL games.
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Post by Novi Pazar on May 1, 2011 5:30:13 GMT -5
"Novi bro, sorry, but what Nikola says is 100% true. Serbian-Greek friendship was designed from the start in order to be fragile. Just like the hatred between Bosniaks (=Serbs)/Stokavian Croats (=Serbs)/western Ekavica Bulgarians (=Serbs) and Bosnian-Serbian Serbs is artificial as well."
I don't know man, l really don't believe our close ties are a recent formation. This connection began way back, historically.
"Now let me tell you a little about the incident. The greek sportcaster/media, almost immediately started a polemic rhetoric. The very same speaker was was covering the game, made comments like "Krstic run away, ha ha ha, look at him hahaha", in other words, a totally chechen behavior, aimed only at showing off our absent culture and spirituality. The very moment the greek speaker was fueling hatred, i was in a tavern in Nish and everyone was friendly to me, and even if there was a war between Serbia and Greece they would still try to protect me, since i was obviously in the weak position. And the Serbs would do the same with every nation. The slav tradition of war prohibits being cruel to the weak."
Nah man, l know many Greeks, they are a friendly and warm people.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 1, 2011 7:17:59 GMT -5
Novi, the Greeks of Australia are a different species. 100% innocent and pure. Same with Greeks from USA/Russia/Ukraine/Crete/Cyprus. Its only Greeks from Greece who have this "problem".
If you dont believe me, i can translate to you the voice of the sportcaster of the game, second by second.
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