Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Apr 15, 2011 7:13:20 GMT -5
Saw this on another forum, and I didn't know which section to post it in, so I thought I'd post it here.
It's a good example of how crazy Balkan people are.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Simarik Turkish Pwincess
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 15, 2011 7:39:55 GMT -5
It seems to exist with lyrics modified throughout all ex Ottoman lands. The Turks may have adopted it from somewhere and spread it throughout their territory, or it may be Turkish in origin, what does it matter? Its a lovely melody...
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Apr 15, 2011 7:55:49 GMT -5
...what does it matter? Its a lovely melody... It seems to matter a lot to some people. Those Serbs and Bulgarians, especially, were ready to bust some heads. ;D
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Apr 15, 2011 9:05:07 GMT -5
That was entertaining and funny to watch especially Serbs and Bulgarians. ;D ;D
Balkans Balkans.. never change
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Apr 15, 2011 9:27:54 GMT -5
There is a longer version of the Bulgarians reaction. They seem to really hate Turks.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Apr 15, 2011 14:11:20 GMT -5
The reactions clearly depict how poisonous is the influence of nationalism where it renders one void of humanity towards others.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Apr 19, 2011 8:03:29 GMT -5
I wonder when (or if ever) Balkan people will stop hating each other so much. I would honestly like to visit Greece for a holiday, but hardcore nationalism against us "Skopians" is putting me off. Even Serbia and Bulgaria, the last thing I want to do on my holiday is to have someone lecture me about what I can call myself.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Apr 19, 2011 9:52:02 GMT -5
First of all, I wouldn't go as far as saying that "Bulgarians hate Turks". Though, out of all our neighbors the Turks are the most disliked. This is mostly due to the political agenda during communism, and the same thing can be seen in other countries.
Greeks dislike Bulgarians, and they disliked Bulgarians quite a bit. The only reason why their views have "softened" recently is the whole name issue with Macedonia.
Anyway, Nikola, don't worry.. if you go to Bulgaria, it's possible that some people might make certain remarks, but that's not as likely to happen as you think it is. The truth is that in general everyday life situations if you are a Bulgarian, a Macedonian, or a Macedonian with a Bulgarian self consciousness you'll most likely get the same treatment.
But if you go out on the streets screaming "Bugari Tatari", or something of the sort, then I'd say it's highly probably that you won't be able to enjoy your vacation.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Apr 19, 2011 10:39:35 GMT -5
But if you go out on the streets screaming "Bugari Tatari", or something of the sort, then I'd say it's highly probably that you won't be able to enjoy your vacation. I would never do that. In fact, I always try and stay away from political discussions because nobody can ever win. But still, I have come across people who look for conflict, even here in Australia. But like you said, most people are friendly, so maybe it's not so bad.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Apr 19, 2011 11:03:28 GMT -5
I think it is as simple as saying that you are apolitical and that you as a person do not care for politics. If someone wants to get to know you for the person you are fine if not the hell with them.
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Post by rusebg on Apr 19, 2011 11:48:53 GMT -5
To answer the question, this is an Armenian song. Quite strange, if you consider all the amount of Balkan bs that surrounds it. And in my opinion, this is the best documentary ever that regards our mentality.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 20, 2011 1:30:35 GMT -5
Though, out of all our neighbors the Turks are the most disliked. This is mostly due to the political agenda during communism, and the same thing can be seen in other countries. The term "Turk" was irrelevant during Communism, I doubt that Communism fueled any anti-Turk sentiment. At least not in Yugoslavia. Religion was not important back then, (the main reason behind much of the conflicts between orthodox balkanians and turks), and Turkey was not an important country. The hatred went uphill once Communism was dead and religion/nationalism prevailed. Sometimes I ask my self if there is the slightest possibility that you are ever aware of what you are talking about. Greeks dislike Bulgarians, and they disliked Bulgarians quite a bit. The only reason why their views have "softened" recently is the whole name issue with Macedonia. I doubt it. Greeks do not hate Bulgarians, or at least we don't hate you more than Albanians/Serbs/or our own selves.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 20, 2011 1:33:13 GMT -5
But still, I have come across people who look for conflict, even here in Australia. But like you said, most people are friendly, so maybe it's not so bad. Nikola, I like Bulgarians, and during our stay there, it seemed they love Greeks and also like anything Slavic (like Yugoslavs, people with whom they can communicate). Bulgarians, also, are inherently disciplined and polite. I guess Aziz must be an exception since he bears none of the aforementioned virtues. PS If you have noticed, Ioan *is* a good Person (a little bit silly at times, but still good).
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 20, 2011 5:08:32 GMT -5
I wonder when (or if ever) Balkan people will stop hating each other so much. I would honestly like to visit Greece for a holiday, but hardcore nationalism against us "Skopians" is putting me off. Nikola, every year in Halkidiki there are tones of cars with "SK", "KU", reg plates, they are having their vacations, normally just like any normal Serb or Bulgarian. Most (yugoslav)Makedonians (i am using this annotation to differentiate from Greek Makedonians) end up in places where mostly Serbs go. (as is also the case in the diaspora as well).
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Apr 20, 2011 6:21:37 GMT -5
I'm just put off by some of the news articles I have seen of Macedonian cars being stoned and vandalized pyrros. Plus, (through work) I came across a Greek man here in Australia recently, and he kept brazenly telling me that I can't call myself a Macedonian, and he wanted to talk about politics, etc, so he put me off.
But then again, I have some Greek friends here who don't care about the whole issue, so hopefully most Greeks are like that. And I don't think I'll have too many problems in Bulgaria, I can see that they don't look down on us.
Maybe I'll just visit but identify myself as an Australian and plead ignorance on the whole name issue, lol.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 20, 2011 7:24:59 GMT -5
Well, the western centers in Greece did anything in their powers to promote hatred against the "bad" "Skopians", and most of the majmuns bought it. What west has managed to do, with consistent success, and we witnessed this in the recent Gotovina trial, where there were some ex-military Croats in Zagreb who were whining against the court as being a "Serbian court" (where in fact all the respective ex-military Serbs could not do smth equivalent since they are *ALL* in the hague already), so both Serbs and Croats feel deeply betrayed and desperate and misused. The exact same thing happened between the Greeks and the Slav-Makedonians, we both feel like the losers of the story and want more. And in a lose-lose situation, *ALWAYS* somebody wants more, and in this occasion, conflicts arise. The west has been investing in hatred in the balkans for a long time, and the results are to be seen in the future.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Apr 20, 2011 15:53:59 GMT -5
It's inaccurate to equate communism in Bulgaria and communism in Yugoslavia. In fact, communism in Yugoslavia can't really be equated to other countries.. it was different there, but that's a whole other topic. But with regards to Bulgaria, the dislike against the Turks became significantly more intensified between the years of 1945 and 1990 or so.
I'm sure they don't, just like Bulgarians don't hate Turks. However, there is a noticeable dislike at times. Personally, I've found that Greeks kindda frown when they hear I'm Bulgarian and I've heard similar things from other Bulgarians. One of my closer friends is Bulgarian from Burgas, and he's got a Greek grandparent on each side of his family.. ironically enough, his Greek grandfather dislikes Greeks quite a bit, I'm not sure what his issues are.. must be something political. Anyway, it just seems like Greeks view Bulgarians as a "lesser people" sometimes.. I'm not sure how to explain it, but there's something there.
I think 'love' is a bit of a strong word. We don't hate Greeks either. I'd say for the most part we're indifferent/neutral towards Greeks. Though, with regards to the Slavic thing.. generally I think the average Bulgarian views all Slavs as "friendlies". Favoritism is shown to Russians and Serbs. Macedonians are obviously liked as well, however, this is a bit of a tricky situation.. some Macedonians are loved, particularly the ones who still have a Bulgarian self consciousness. The neutral Macedonians are just liked, or treated neutrally, and the ultra-Macs (ie. the ones that go on and on with the 'Bugari Tatari' slogan) are despised quite a bit. This is just my own personal opinion, based on what I've seen or heard from friends.
I don't really know what to say here.. thanks? I guess, I'm happy that you've had a pleasant experience in Bulgaria and with Bulgarians in general. I must admit, I've never come across a Greek who has such a 'high opinion' of Bulgarians. But then again, I haven't met that many Greeks either. And, I've never been to Greece.
Personal experiences and emotions aside, from a historical point of view from the Bulgarian perspective.. Serbs, Greeks, and Turks fall under one category. Each has invaded Bulgarian land, each has raped, pillaged, and murdered innocent Bulgarians. Though, the Serb and Greek 'misdeeds' have never really been publicized in Bulgaria unlike the Turk 'misdeeds'. But then again, Bulgaria has done it's fair share of all of what I've listed above.. I mean, you don't build two empires 'peacefully'.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Apr 21, 2011 7:01:26 GMT -5
It's a Gypsy song.
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