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Post by macmako on May 9, 2011 18:58:10 GMT -5
UMD to EU: Macedonians Speak “Macedonian”, Not “Official Language” Monday, 11 April 2011 April 11, 2011 – Washington, D.C. & Paris, France – The United Macedonian Diaspora (“UMD”) expresses its strong outrage that the European Parliament has ceased referring – in official European Union (“EU”) documents -- to the Republic of Macedonia’s language as “Macedonian” and, instead, has begun using the mindless term “official language”. UMD, on behalf of its members and supporters in the EU, North America, Australia and elsewhere, calls on the EU to immediately end this highly offensive practice. UMD would like to think that the EU merely made an inadvertent mistake. If, however, the EU’s actions were intentional – as we believe was the case – they fly in the face of one of the EU’s foundational principles: an integrated Europe will respect the human dignity and liberty of all of its peoples. “It is abominable to, in effect, de-recognize an official language spoken by more than five million people world-wide,” said UMD President Metodija A. Koloski. “It is disgraceful in the extreme to succumb to the petty machinations of Greece at the expense of the Macedonian people.” Macedonian writers have captivated their countrymen with vivid and inspiring stories and Macedonian poets have impassioned them with rich and meaningful poems over the centuries -- in their mother tongue, Macedonian. The Macedonian language has served as a beacon to unite Macedonians, especially when they have faced grave dangers, such as during the Ilinden Uprising of 1903, the Balkan Wars of 1912-13 and the two World Wars. UMD believes that to so callously disrespect a people – particularly a people who are so deeply enmeshed in the very fiber and heritage of Europe -- is reprehensible. UMD France representative Claude Zoran Spasevski urges all Europeans to contact their Members of the European Parliament or local party representatives and tell them that Europe will not be whole without Macedonia and that, accordingly, the EU should immediately resume referring to the “Macedonian” language in the EU’s official documents. umdiaspora.org/content/view/557/1/
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ioan
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Post by ioan on May 9, 2011 23:56:01 GMT -5
The Macedonian language has served as a beacon to unite Macedonians, especially when they have faced grave dangers, such as during the Ilinden Uprising of 1903, the Balkan Wars of 1912-13 and the two World Wars. unfortunately for presentday Macedonians, at those times it was Bulgarian that was used to unite the Bulgarian Macedonians. We can speak (if we accept that even a dialect can be viewed as a separate language) for Macedonian language only after late 40ties.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 10, 2011 4:02:06 GMT -5
I blame it all to those stupid Serbs who published those first Bulgarian books in Kragujevac. They should have left Bulgos to the dark ages.
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Post by macmako on May 10, 2011 13:07:04 GMT -5
Sadly, from the Middle Ages to the 20th Century, the Macedonians of Macedonia (Province) were identified as Bulgarian, Greek, or to a lesser degree, Serbian. Hence the mentality some have today concerning the Macedonians. Eventually today, "Bulgarians" have become synonymous with the Macedonian Slavs, and ethnic Macedonians.
Also in the late 1800's, Bulgarians and Greeks used the power of religion to promote their languages and identify more Macedonians as Bulgarian or Greek. The Greeks added Greek language and culture schools to the villages with few Greeks. Since Serbia did not get along with Bulgaria, they tried to make Macedonians identify as Serbs, but was not as successful.
All this negativity toward Macedonians were all due to Greece, Bulgaria, and Serbia wanting a bigger slice of the Province of Macedonia, which eventually led to Balkan War 2.
This attitude toward the Macedonians has filtered down to present times (as evident to the absurd posts even here on this forum), and even affecting the European Parliament.
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Post by ljubotan on May 10, 2011 13:21:17 GMT -5
The MK govt needs to make compromises...bottom line. I'd say fine, keep the name 'Republic of Macedonia', but the offical languages need to be named 'Vardarski' and 'Siptarski'. This should calm both MK's, Greeks and even Albanians. Albanians will only grow, and not having their language recognized as an official language next to 'Vardarski' is realistically absurd. They are real people that physically live there and number nearly 750k, next to 1.2MM Slavs (the difference of about 500K, that the Albanians will make up in 40yrs time).
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Post by macmako on May 10, 2011 13:37:42 GMT -5
What is the point, my friend. The USA does not even have an official language specified. It is only assumed to be English. As for Macedonia, let it only be assumed it to be "Macedonian", and not make it official at all.
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Post by eaglesson on May 10, 2011 13:45:28 GMT -5
ljubotan Albanians in Macedonia are calm.We don't have issues like Macedonians do but still we have problems with the language and the usage of national symbols. Also there are some projects that cut the Ohrid agreement in half such as Macedonian Encyclopedia and Skopje 2014.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on May 10, 2011 14:11:17 GMT -5
Actually, this has always been the case concerning the vast majority of the Slav speaking population of Macedonia.
I don’t believe you’re entirely clear on what the situation was. In the late 1700’s and early 1800’s the Greeks gained significant religious influence as the only recognized Christian church in the Ottoman Empire at that time was the Greek one. Many Bulgarians and Maceodno-Bulgarians began to identify as Greeks, even though they didn’t even speak the language. Hence the works of the monk Paisi of Hilendar, who published a history of Bulgarians in an attempt to get them to realize that we have our own history to be proud of and we don’t need to identify as Greeks. After that point on, all attempts and efforts coming from the Bulgarian side (and the Bulgarian Exarchate of course) aimed to counter act the doings of the Greek Church. The whole purpose of the Bulgarian “agenda” in Macedonia was to diminish Greek influence. Though, at times Bulgarian priests instructed Bulgarian villages to go along with it.. ie. to identify with the Greeks in order to avoid persecution.
This is accurate.
This just sounds childish and misinformed. Serbia and Bulgaria had great relations up until the Serbo-Bulgarian war of 1885, even after that the relations were decent.. The problems between Bulgaria and Serbia came about due to the anti-Bulgarian actions in Macedonia which Serbia had undertaken. Serbia forcefully attempted to assimilate the Maceodno-Bulgarians, Bulgarian churches were destroyed, the ones that weren’t were turned into Serbian ones etc. So Serbia didn’t do what they did in Macedonia because it had “bad relations” with Bulgaria. The “bad relations” came about because of what Serbia did in Macedonia.
False again. It is true that that is ALL that Serbia and Greece wanted. They wanted to annex as much of Macedonia as possible, and they wanted and tried to (forcefully) assimilate the local population (ie. the Macedono-Bulgarians). After the treaty of San Stefano was purposefully dissolved by the West (mainly by Britain and France), Bulgaria NEVER wanted to annex Macedonia. All Bulgarian patriots, be they from the newly liberated Bulgarian Principality, be they from Eastern Rumelia, be they from Macednoia.. all of them, ALL Macedonian Patriots with a Bulgarian ethnic identity, fought and died for a free and independent Macedonia. They fought under the motto Macedonia for the Macedonians, that’s what the IMRO fought for. Now some retards out there seem to think that “Macedonia for the Macedonians” is somehow referring to ethnic Macedonians, HOWEVER, at that time there was NO SUCH THING. Macedonian, at that time, meant a local inhabitant of the geographic area of Macedonia. Meaning that a Macedonian back then meant any person who was of that land, be they of Bulgarian, Albanian, Greek, Turkish, Serbian, Gypsy, Armenian, etc. ethnic origin. There are two main reasons why they all (mainly talking about the IMRO here) fought for a liberated and independent Macedonia.
1. After what happened with the Treaty of San Stefano, they knew that the West would opposed a strong united Bulgaria (Thrace, Moesia, and Macedonia). 2. They wanted to get Macedonians, who were not ethnic Bulgarians.. ie. Albanians, Vlachs, Armenians etc. to fight for the cause of the IMRO. And many of these ethnic groups fought side by side with the Macedono-Bulgarian patriots for the sake of freeing their land from the Ottomans. The general idea was that an independent Macedonia could at some point in the future become a part of some sort of Balkan Federation, of which Bulgaria would also be a part of.. hence uniting the Bulgarian people regardless.
All this stuff is well recorded, and practically everything that I know about this is NOT coming from Bulgarian sources. So go read something on the matter. It seems you’re from the Aegean, so I’d suggest you read the history and the stories of the Aegean Macedonian immigrants who immigrated to Canada and the US in the early 1900’s. See how they identified, see what they fought for, see what they wanted, see how they called their restaurants, their churches, and basically anything that they did in North America.
Read about the Macedonian Patriotic Organization of North America as well, read about its origin. You’ll find that the Macedonian Patriotic Organization (MPO) of North America fought for the rights of Macedonno-Bulgarians, they protest against the forced Serbian and Greek occupation of Macedonia. They fought for gaining the right for Macedonians to be able to speak their mother tongue (ie. Bulgarian) in their own lands, which the Greeks and Serbs had annexed.
Anyhow, by the 1950’s the MPO had switched its perspectives to support the newly founded idea of an independent ethnic Macedonian group that would be distinctive from Bulgarians.
Anyway, if you READ EVERYTHING on the matter you’ll be able to see how things happened, and why they happened. The biggest problem that people encounter is the fact that they selectively pick and choose bits and pieces of history and they try to make sense of it.. little do they know, the records are there, the facts are there, the evidence is there, the pictures are there, the movies of how the Bulgarian Nazi armies were welcomed into Macedonia are there, etc. etc. etc.
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Post by macmako on May 10, 2011 16:25:43 GMT -5
Yes I am. What you mention is one of many "assimilation" attempts of the Macedonians by Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria.
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Post by macmako on May 10, 2011 16:28:34 GMT -5
Incorrect term used. Correct term is "Macedonian". You use an incorrect term deemed by the Great Powers and foreign writers of the time.
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Post by macmako on May 10, 2011 16:36:18 GMT -5
One would think history would be accurate in this matter. But as you well know, there are at least 4 histories written about the Macedonians. There is the one written by the English and German authors, using inaccurate terms and history. Then there are the histories written by Greece, Serbia and Bulgaria. Which do you consider? I'd rather go with the honest, first-hand account and accurate records of family history, for it is accuracy without bias. I guarantee it.
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Post by macmako on May 10, 2011 17:07:39 GMT -5
False. Bulgaria, Greece and Serbia fought against each other for parts of the Province of Macedonia in the Balkan War 2.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 11, 2011 2:25:06 GMT -5
Demo you say you are greek right? Ever been to Corfu? If no, its a wonderful place for summer vacations. If you go there, do not forget to make a visit to the Serbian museum of WWI. It is run with minimal funds (as you should be able to assume by yourself) and no help from Greek govt. If you go there (its in the middle of the "Hora" (btw i am sure your greek grandma taught you this word, right?) and pay a visit, TAKE A CLOSE EXAMINATION TO THE TWO DIVISIONS FROM MAKEDONIA WHO FOUGHT ALONG WITH THE REST OF YUGOSLAV ARMY IN WWI.
VARDARSKA-BITOLJSKA were their names... From the two respective regions...
Other divisions were from all over Yugoslavia, but mostly Serbia.
The results were victorious for the Yugoslavs. Unfortunately the loss was terrible. ONE MILLION DEAD YUGOSLAVS (mostly Serbs). 50% of the male population died in this war.
The aftermath was the first Yugoslavia.
Serbs have paid the biggest blood-price with regards to the affairs of the south slavs in the balkans, and a such i consider any anti-serb behaviors , totally gay and artificial.
From all balkanians, they are the ones who had the guts to stand up against the most mighty empires.
SERBS and only them...
All the rest of us (greko-albo-romano-bulgo-hravto-boslimo salad) are peanuts.
We wear our finest revealing and sexy outfit, even before <insert your favorite great-power here> thinks of "making love" to us.....
f**king losers..... and especially those wankers (bulgos-vlahogreks-albos) who are having fun because someone else (USA) did what their jealousy was unable to do...
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Post by Novi Pazar on May 11, 2011 3:45:24 GMT -5
"I blame it all to those stupid Serbs who published those first Bulgarian books in Kragujevac. They should have left Bulgos to the dark ages."
You don't know how much l second that Pyrro. All the schools and other facilities we built for these people, only for them to come back and almost steal half of serbia and a portion of Greece. The Russians reared them like a spoilt little brat and while the Ottomans had their interests with them too....freaken unbelieveable....here we have this stupid Demo, celebrating and cheering his vardarian grandmother spitting on the name of Serbia, really shameful.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 11, 2011 5:10:56 GMT -5
Lemme tell you smth about Bulgos, brate. My wife was attending some demonstration in Sofia. (not taking part, needless to say). There were some rather mid-age people, protesting, wearing blue uniforms. She told me, that was the most peaceful protest she ever saw. Quiet, disciplined. In an equivalent event in Greece it would be probable that violence would spark any time, very loud, and always with (non-fatal) casualties. In Serbia-Bosna, it would be surely more loud. (you know the voice of the Serbs, if you know what i mean). In Bulgaria it was like the sisters of mercy were parading, or smth.... During the 1999 bombing, some bombs actually *fell* in Sofia. (was it accidental? who knows) Some Bulgarians tried to protest against it... You know what happened? The fascist western-lead police beat the ch1t out of them.... HEAVY BEATING... That;s why you will almost never hear the Bulgarian soul. It is buried into oppression for a LONG time. I am in no way advocating the completely anarchic style of Greece, but IMO Bulgarians are at the exact opposite extreme. ... and the Ruskies-Westies, knowing that Bulgaria has such a "good" material, they take advantage of her...
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 11, 2011 5:16:47 GMT -5
In the balkans, two are the voices of the Free: 1) Serbs 2) Greeks
The difference is that Greeks are spoiled and anarchic, and never go till the end, while Serbs are more determined and *could* be potentially harmful.
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Post by macmako on May 11, 2011 6:39:03 GMT -5
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Post by macmako on May 11, 2011 6:52:08 GMT -5
Yes, I have been to the beautiful island of Corfu. No, I have not visited the Serbian museum of Corfu. Why? I know the history of the Serbians there. Besides, Corfu is a big island, with much beauty to absorb and feel.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 11, 2011 7:13:44 GMT -5
Yes, I have been to the beautiful island of Corfu. No, I have not visited the Serbian museum of Corfu. Why? I know the history of the Serbians there. Besides, Corfu is a big island, with much beauty to absorb and feel. Its funny, how easily you erase a BIG PART of the MAKEDONIAN HISTORY... Don't you care for the MAKEDONIANS who were there? There must have been LOADS of Makedonian there, judging by the fact that there were TWO MAKEDONIAN DIVISIONS THERE.... Hmmm.... Come one shout out loud that you are an hypocrite... Don't be shy... You will feel better ;D
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 11, 2011 7:16:00 GMT -5
Come one liar, give me exact dates of birth and death of your grandmother. To the best of knowledge NO GREEK would spit against SERBS, because they HARDLY KNEW THEY EXISTED... (Serbs, just like Croats/Makedonians/Boslims/Slovenes used to be known as Yugoslavs, if that reminds you smth....) liar.
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