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Post by Anittas on Jun 10, 2011 16:57:35 GMT -5
Music is part of folklore and this is what I was referring to. It may be small, but the exchange was done on an equal basis and respect. No side claimed superiority. This is why we appreciate the trade and cherish it.
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Post by rusebg on Jun 10, 2011 17:05:27 GMT -5
Anittas, give me an example please. But really folklore music, not some covers from recent years.
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Post by Anittas on Jun 10, 2011 17:38:15 GMT -5
What do you mean? What do you think people have been discussing in this thread? Sarba is not a recent addition and it is also popular among Ukranians, Hungarians; and as AofG mentioned earlier, some Jews. You need to be vaccinated against jealousy. Nasty virus...
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Post by terroreign on Jun 10, 2011 18:52:36 GMT -5
I notice alot of similarities between Sarba and Serb folklore
The pair-dancing is very similar to the Herzegovinian & Montenegrin dances, where they would hold hands from behind the back, and turn around in intervals.
Also the hand gestures motioning an upward, eagle-like thrust, very similar again to the Montenegrin Oro jump-dance.
Then not to mention the basic circle aspect of it, but i think nearly every slavic nation in the balkans has that.
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Jun 10, 2011 19:25:30 GMT -5
I forgot to add that the dance and costumes of those high schoolers are not authentic, only the song is... BTW, Ruse asked: www.dunav.org.il/dance_research/serbia_kokonjeste.htmlKokonjeste [Serbia] dance history & background
The background material for Kokonjeste was written by Dennis Boxell, based partially on Dick Crum's "Nama" notes.
Kokonješte or Kokonješće is one of the "classic" dances of Yugoslavia. It was a favorite of turn-of-the-century ballrooms as well as village churchyards; by 1900 it had attained sufficient popularity among Serbs living in the Austro-Hungarian Empire (Vojvodina) that by the 1920's it had been transplanted to the U.S. and Canada by immigrants from that area.
Its name is a Romanian word meaning "in the style of a young nobleman", giving credence to the idea that the dance was introduced via the upper-class ballroom. Also, many famous musicians of the time were of Roumanian origin, and these musicians definitely had a large impact on the dance music of Serbia at the time.
Many different tunes were composed for Kokonješte. Both Čukaričko Kolo and Zaječarka are forms of Kokonješte. Čukaricko Kokonješte was named after Čukarica, a district in the city of Belgrade, along the Sava river, that was renowned early in the century for its racetrack. Zaječarka was named after the town of Zaječar in Eastern Serbia.
The most famous Kokonješte is Arapsko Kokonjeste (literally "Arabian"). This is the tune that has lived on among Serbian-American musicians to the present day although you will be hard pressed to find it danced any more, especially among new immigrants.
The many dances of this family are based on a simple symmetrical pattern of four measures to the right and four measures to the left. These four-measure-pattern dances were very popular in Serbia in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and were precursors to the Kokonješte. Several examples would be Dunje Ranke, Divna Divna, Ti Momo, and Potam Povam to name a few.
In the early 1900's it became fashionable to "double" the steps in Kokoješte, a phenomenon which, based on the Serbian concept of a step,* resulted in a six-step pattern and a logically derived new name, "U Šest koraka" (in six steps). Other embellishments were added to the new style, such as hops, subtle bounces and others, and the resultant highly improvised dance has come to be referred to as U Šest, even when some of the variations might not total six steps. While there are endless melodies today for U Šest, the melody "Moravac" became so famous that it is now a synonym for U Šest in the vocabulary of most Serbs. The Kokonješte of yesteryear has now evolved over time to become the new national dance of Serbia, Moravac or U Šest" and rare is the Serb who cannot dance it.
* Serbian concept of a step (korak: "A shift of weight onto a given foot plus whatever follow-up movement of the other foot. For example, seven quick running steps to the right would be four Serbian "koraks" 1) R-L , 2) R-L, 3) R-L, 4) R. Now add two "Thee steps" in place LRL (5) and RLR (6). Repeat in opposite direction and you have "six steps to the right and six steps to the left", the "missing link" from Kokonjeste to U Šest.Actually „cocon” means nobelman, aristocrat, so coconeşte means „like the aristocrats” Here is a sârba played by Jews. It sounds like it's a Moldavian one. First song is a doina. Klezmer was heavily influenced by the Romanian folklore. The Co-territorial Repertoire: Music – both popular and folk – borrowed from neighboring ethnic groups, especially Romanian, Ukrainian, Russian, and Hungarians. After the "Jewish enlightenment" it became more common for men to dance together with women (a practice still avoided by Orthodox Jews), and models for such music were sought outside of Jewish life. In particular, Romanian music grew in popularity after dances such as the bulgareasca and the sirba became, in effect, dance crazes among Jews at the end of the 19th century. According to the Ukrainian Yiddish singer Bronya Sakina, "The more Romanian it sounded, the better we liked it".There is indeed a dance from Moldavia called „bulgara” or „bulgăreasca”. As you may notice it means „Bulgarian” And again as in the case of „sârba” it has nothing to do with the Bulgarian dances, at least this is what i've read and not from Romanian sources, since I'm not an expert. It's again probably just a dance that tried to mimic at some point in history the dances of the Bulgarians who settled Basarabia, but in time evolved into something else. I know that because even today the Jews have this dance called „bulgar” and some thought it's of Bulgarian origins only to be baffled by the fact that it has no resemblance with any Bulgarian dances only to search further and find out that it was in fact a Romanian dance. Some more interesting facts: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klezmer#Song_types
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Post by terroreign on Jun 10, 2011 20:38:54 GMT -5
Well Serbs have a dance called the "Vlah" dance, however it doesn't have anything ethnically to do with Vlahs or anything either, however possibly in the past just like "Sarba" or "Bulgara" dances.
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Post by uz on Jun 10, 2011 20:52:15 GMT -5
^ Just comes to show, we're all mixed up. Whether we want to admit it or not.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 10, 2011 21:15:45 GMT -5
i guess you could come to that conclusion, or to the conclusion that certain peoples had more influence than others on one another at different degrees of existence
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Post by uz on Jun 10, 2011 21:16:53 GMT -5
^ We all equally play that part.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 10, 2011 21:19:45 GMT -5
that's an idealistic sentiment, but clearly unrealistic when looked at objectively uz
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Post by uz on Jun 10, 2011 21:21:49 GMT -5
Of course from a statistical, text-book point of view, one culture has had more influence on the other than the rest.
Try looking at this from the individual perspective. <-- this is what really matters in the end.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 10, 2011 21:40:18 GMT -5
No, the individual perspective is the one that doesn't matter. I prove this in a thread in the philosophy forum if you care to look.
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Post by Anittas on Jun 11, 2011 6:54:52 GMT -5
I'm just glad that we took the good from the Serbs and repelled the bad from the Bulgarians.
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Post by uz on Jun 11, 2011 12:35:03 GMT -5
No, the individual perspective is the one that doesn't matter. I prove this in a thread in the philosophy forum if you care to look.[/quote Without the individual position we lack truth.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 12, 2011 12:54:24 GMT -5
^Truth is found in the objective position.
George Emil Palade, a pioneer of modern cell biology, was awarded the Nobel Prize in Medicine in 1974!
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Post by uz on Jun 12, 2011 13:13:46 GMT -5
Not always, but the objective position gives more leverage in understanding the whole situation.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 12, 2011 13:20:03 GMT -5
exactly, the "whole situation" is the "truth".
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Post by uz on Jun 12, 2011 13:33:03 GMT -5
lol yes, this would include the individual perspective.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 12, 2011 13:39:26 GMT -5
sure, but without the objective standpoint truth is lost. not the case vice versa (for you and i will die, the group will always exist)
case in point are these forums. loners tend to go crazy and lose sight of what's real and what's imaginary, for example Hellenas or Novus Dis. they are the epitomy of your "individual perspective".
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Post by uz on Jun 12, 2011 13:52:42 GMT -5
Our individual experiences within this whole group, collectively comes together as the whole truth. This is how culture was founded, and how languages emerged
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