Sokol
Senior Moderator
Македонецот
Posts: 653
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Post by Sokol on Sept 13, 2011 0:52:52 GMT -5
Serbs Under the Yoke of the Avars"Each year the Avars came to the Serbs to spend the winter and slept with the wives and daughters of the Serbs. The Serbs tolerated other perfidies as well, and also paid tribute to the Avars. The sons, however, which the Avars had fathered with the women and daughters of Serb menfolk, would not tolerate this brutal oppression and refused to subject themselves to Avars. The Avars humiliated the Serbs, forcing them to draw their carts like pack horses." -From the Chronicles of Fredegarius 'Visual History of the World', by Douglas G. Brinkley
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Sept 13, 2011 1:52:46 GMT -5
Another proove of the amount of the turkic blood in Serbs.
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Post by ulf on Sept 13, 2011 2:47:08 GMT -5
buahahahahahahahaha, what a bulls**t. The Frankish peasant priest wrote some idiotisms as if he even went there or anywhere else away from his county, just because his country would get pwned time by time by Lusatian Serbs on their western frontier(ofc until Charlemagne) ;D ;D ;D
...and 1400 years later you sheep are buying it ;D ;D ;D
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Post by terroreign on Sept 13, 2011 3:07:33 GMT -5
i must admit, this is a delightfully hilarious crock of s**t
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Post by Moe Lester on Sept 13, 2011 3:20:01 GMT -5
Geez, Serbs are mad about their history.
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Post by ulf on Sept 13, 2011 3:22:15 GMT -5
I just laugh at amount of bullshit people write here ;D
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Kralj Vatra
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 13, 2011 3:34:25 GMT -5
Geez, Serbs are mad about their history. ooops another "neutral" third-party. LMAO @the hypocrisy here....
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Post by Moe Lester on Sept 13, 2011 3:37:02 GMT -5
ooops another "neutral" third-party. LMAO @the hypocrisy here.... Some guy posts some history of the Serbs and all I see of the comments are "lol bullshit", "propaganda". Then you start making all these assumptions about other people's history and language (such as Bulgarians) on one source and think it's undeniable proof. Hypocrisy is yours, mate.
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Kralj Vatra
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Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 13, 2011 3:50:12 GMT -5
LMAO @the hypocrisy here....
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 13, 2011 9:07:38 GMT -5
Chento, there is no Turkish blood in our veins, this also includes Southern Serbia. I will conceed that the origin of the topoymn in Southern Serbia, known as Kumanovo, is most likely from Turkish Cumans?
I wouldn't be listening to stupid BuLgari if l were you.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 13, 2011 9:26:31 GMT -5
'In one of the southern island (Hvar) populations, we found a relatively high frequency (14%) of lineages belonging to P*(xM173) cluster, which is unusual for European populations. Interestingly, the same population also harbored mitochondrial haplogroup F that is virtually absent in European populations – indicating a connection with Central Asian populations, possibly the Avars."
Just a quote for Chento.
PS Hvar is an island from Croatia, not Serbia.
"Worthy of note is the finding of considerable frequency of haplogroup P* (xM173) in the population of the island of Hvar. According to Wells et al44 this lineage displays a maximum in Central Asia while being rare in Europe, Middle East and East Asia. Its presence in Hvar recapitulates our finding of mtDNA haplogroup F on the island of Hvar and in mainland Croatian population that is virtually absent in Europe but, again, common in populations from Central and Eastern Asia.51 There are several possibilities for the occurrence of the ancestral lineage of M173. One is the well-documented alliance of Avars (a Mongol people) and Slavs (Croatians) that followed Avar arrival to the eastern Adriatic in 6th century AD. The other is the expansion of the Ottoman Empire from the 16th to 18th century AD when refugees from the western Balkan frequently immigrated to the islands. Lastly, the ancient Silk Road linking China with western Asia and Europe could be a possible path of P(xM173) lineage, too. Any of these migratory patterns could have introduced this mutation to the investigated population."
Well, the island of Hvar is testament to that!
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Post by kroraina on Sept 13, 2011 9:26:54 GMT -5
Serbs Under the Yoke of the Avars"Each year the Avars came to the Serbs to spend the winter and slept with the wives and daughters of the Serbs. The Serbs tolerated other perfidies as well, and also paid tribute to the Avars. The sons, however, which the Avars had fathered with the women and daughters of Serb menfolk, would not tolerate this brutal oppression and refused to subject themselves to Avars. The Avars humiliated the Serbs, forcing them to draw their carts like pack horses." -From the Chronicles of Fredegarius Your quote from the fourth book of Fredegar is false. There is no mention of any Serbs in it (but it does mention Bulgars in Pannonia staging a rebellion against the Avars...). The events you describe refer to 623 AD and to the creation of the state of Samo and they speak about certain Slavs known as Wendians, about Huns sleeping with Slavic women, etc. Here is the Russian translation (an English expose - in Florin Curta's Slavs in Fredegar and Paul the Deacon): The story of Fredegar is partly mirrored in the Russian Primary Chronicle, which speak of a Slavic tribe of Dulebians: Below is the take of Omeljan Pritsak, the arch-Turkophile, specifically on the Wendians. More on Pritsak's view of the Salvic-Avaric relations here: The Slavs and the Avars, Gli Slavi occidentali e meridionali nell'alto medioevo, Spoleto, 15-21 aprile 1982, t. I, pp. 353-435 (1982)
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Sept 13, 2011 9:31:04 GMT -5
You've once more failed to see that the sources being referenced are not Bulgarian. Do take notice..
That's what's what. The problem I believe stems from those who are willing to overlook centuries of history in some pathetic attempt to prove that all Slavs are Serbs.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 13, 2011 9:39:45 GMT -5
Nice catch Novi. maybe the word hrvat comes from applying the Serbian swapping of consonants on the word "h-avar-at" ?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 13, 2011 9:45:40 GMT -5
"Your quote from the fourth book of Fredegar is false. There is no mention of any Serbs in it (but it does mention Bulgars in Pannonia staging a rebellion against the Avars...). The events you describe refer to 623 AD and to the creation of the state of Samo and they speak about certain Slavs known as Wendians, about Huns sleeping with Slavic women, etc. Here is the Russian translation (an English expose - in Florin Curta's Slavs in Fredegar and Paul the Deacon):"
I knew this from the beginning, anyway, are you hinting of the Kuber, the relative of asparuch, at all?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 13, 2011 9:53:41 GMT -5
"Nice catch Novi. maybe the word hrvat comes from applying the Serbian swapping of consonants on the word "h-avar-at" ?"
Who knows man. Pyrro, Chento must feel abit sensitive considering that the name Bulgar is Turkish and the Bulgarians themselves have turanian ancestry, primarily found in North East BuLgarska. I wonder if Chento knows about his ancestors, called the GAGAUZI (you know man, the Hasli or Eski ones).
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Post by kroraina on Sept 13, 2011 10:03:43 GMT -5
Nice catch Novi. maybe the word hrvat comes from applying the Serbian swapping of consonants on the word "h-avar-at" ? nothing new, the linguist Oleg Trubachev entertained similar ideas in his studies of supposedly Indo-Aryan glosses, toponyms from the northern Pontic lands (Ukraine, Southern Russia). He claimed that the s-/h- alternation in srb-/hrv-(at) (- at is just a plural suffix) is a reflection of the s-/h- ambiguity in the Indo-Aryan l-s (the Indus river giving rise to names such as Sindh (river, province in Pakistan), but Hindustan, Hindi l-s). Check his "Indo-Arica v severnom Chernomorje".
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Post by kroraina on Sept 13, 2011 10:09:24 GMT -5
I knew this from the beginning, anyway, are you hinting of the Kuber, the relative of asparuch, at all? No, Kuber&Asparuch are half a century after Samo. The Bulgars mentioned by Fredegar and in Paul Diaconus are connected with much older events in Pannonia, like the destruction of the Gepid power by the Avars & Langobards.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 13, 2011 10:19:04 GMT -5
"nothing new, the linguist Oleg Trubachev entertained similar ideas in his studies of supposedly Indo-Aryan glosses, toponyms from the northern Pontic lands (Ukraine, Southern Russia). He claimed that the s-/h- alternation in srb-/hrv-(at) (-at is just a plural suffix) is a reflection of the s-/h- ambiguity in the Indo-Aryan l-s (the Indus river giving rise to names such as Sindh (river, province in Pakistan), but Hindustan, Hindi l-s). Check his "Indo-Arica v severnom Chernomorje"."
Kroraina, you mis-understood Pyrro, his just playing with the name Hrvat that it could be a slavic bastardisation of the turkic name 'Avar'......you never know?
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Post by kroraina on Sept 13, 2011 10:22:14 GMT -5
Pyrro, Chento must feel abit sensitive considering that the name Bulgar is Turkish and the Bulgarians themselves have turanian ancestry, ... now careful, Novi, you are wading into deep waters and don't know what's lurking out there... - The same scholars you blindly follow bleating about the "the name Bulgar is Turkish", like Pritsak, have prepared a nasty surprise for you and for your "purest of the pure Slavic" sensitivities. Browse through Pritsak's opus Slavs and Avars to see how the name Slav supposedly has a Turkic etymology ("a guardian, a sentry") according to him and how the very Slavs were created by Bulgars and Avars to be their "marine infantry" kind of, their military slaves (similar to the mamlukes-in Egypt, the ghulams-type organization).
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