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Post by Babylon Enigma on Nov 6, 2011 10:33:42 GMT -5
This year two seperate studies have been released for the Caucacus region and its people. The results support my claim, Serbs are not from Caucacus. Can't wait to see the sore loser whine and make excuses. ;D Parallel Evolution of Genes and Languages in the Caucasus RegionWe analyzed 40 SNP and 19 STR Y-chromosomal markers in a large sample of 1,525 indigenous individuals from 14 populations in the Caucasus and 254 additional individuals representing potential source populations. We also employed a lexicostatistical approach to reconstruct the history of the languages of the North Caucasian family spoken by the Caucasus populations. We found a different major haplogroup to be prevalent in each of four sets of populations that occupy distinct geographic regions and belong to different linguistic branches. The haplogroup frequencies correlated with geography and, even more strongly, with language. Within haplogroups, a number of haplotype clusters were shown to be specific to individual populations and languages. The data suggested a direct origin of Caucasus male lineages from the Near East, followed by high levels of isolation, differentiation and genetic drift in situ. Comparison of genetic and linguistic reconstructions covering the last few millennia showed striking correspondences between the topology and dates of the respective gene and language trees, and with documented historical events. Overall, in the Caucasus region, unmatched levels of gene-language co-evolution occurred within geographically isolated populations, probably due to its mountainous terrain. mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/05/13/molbev.msr126.short?rss=1========== Overall, the most frequent haplogroups in the Caucasus were G2a3b1-P303 (12%), G2a1a-P18 (8%), J1*-M267(xP58) (34%), and J2a4b*-M67(xM92) (21%), which together encompassed 73% of the Y chromosomes, while the other 24 haplogroups identified in our study comprise the remaining 27% (Table 2). ... haplogroup G2a3b1-P303 comprised at least 21% (and up to 86%) of the Y chromosomes in the Shapsug, Abkhaz and Circassians ... haplogroup G2a1a-P18 comprised at least 56% (and up to 73%) of the Digorians and Ironians (both from the Central Caucasus Iranic linguistic group), while not being found at more than 12% (average 3%) in other populations... haplogroup J2a4b*-M67(xM92) comprised 51-79% of the Y chromosomes in the Ingush and three Chechen populations (North-East Caucasus, Nakh linguistic group), while, in the rest of the Caucasus, its frequency was not higher than 9% (average 3%) ... haplogroup J1*-M267(xP58) comprised 44-99% of the Avar, Dargins, Kaitak, Kubachi, and Lezghins (South-East Caucasus, Dagestan linguistic group) but was less than 25% in Nakh populations and less than 5% in the rest of Caucasus. dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/05/genes-and-languages-in-caucasus.html============= Digorian (äèãîðîí) is a dialect of the Ossetian language. The other is Iron, which is more widely spoken. The differences between the two are large enough to call them two languages—and that is done in some sources like the recently published Digor-Russian dictionary by Fedar Takazov (the compiler himself writes "Digor language", while the editor writes in the same book "Digor dialect"). Digorian speakers live in the west of North Ossetia (Digora, Chikola and other places), in the capital of the republic Vladikavkaz and in larger cities of Russia. There is no precise statistics on that because Digorians are mostly calculated as Ossetians during census. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digor_dialectA map of Slavic haplogroups including Caucacus region. One can notice that Caucacus in terms of genetic lineage is a totally different world
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Nov 6, 2011 10:47:27 GMT -5
The second study.The Caucasus as an asymmetric semipermeable barrier to ancient human migrationsAbstract The Caucasus, inhabited by modern humans since the Early Upper Paleolithic and known for its linguistic diversity, is considered to be important for understanding human dispersals and genetic diversity in Eurasia. We report a synthesis of autosomal, Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) variation in populations from all major subregions and linguistic phyla of the area. Autosomal genome variation in the Caucasus reveals significant genetic uniformity among its ethnically and linguistically diverse populations, and is consistent with predominantly Near/Middle Eastern origin of the Caucasians, with minor external impacts. In contrast to autosomal and mtDNA variation, signals of regional Y chromosome founder effects distinguish the eastern from western North Caucasians. Genetic discontinuity between the North Caucasus and the East European Plain contrasts with continuity through Anatolia and the Balkans, suggesting major routes of ancient gene flows and admixture. mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/09/13/molbev.msr221.abstractThe data from the second study. North Ossetians, with a sample size of 132, has zero individuals with haplogroup I2a (thus excluding the possibility of sub-branch I2a2-Dinaric). There is absolutetly zero genetic=real relationship to Serbs or Slavs. South Ossetians, with a sample size of 21, one individual has I2a, and one has to wonder whether this is the same as I2a2-Dinaric or another I2a branch. Also consistent with the seperate paper above, North Ossetians have 69.7% G2a and South Ossetians have 47.6% G2a. I'll end here and let the numbers speak for themselves. ;D
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 14, 2011 8:25:53 GMT -5
This year two seperate studies have been released for the Caucacus region and its people. The results support my claim, Serbs are not from Caucacus. Can't wait to see the sore loser whine and make excuses. ;D Morias (south Greece) used to be heavily populated by Slavs, as the plethora of toponyms show. However now, you can find many spots there with no slav genes at all. Also the size of the sample data sets (in the range of 100) is laughable from a statistical POV.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Nov 14, 2011 9:15:10 GMT -5
haplogroup G2a1a-P18 comprised at least 56% (and up to 73%) of the Digorians and Ironians (both from the Central Caucasus Iranic linguistic group
Iranic? That's in Georgians the most and I is meant to be the Slavic marker R1a/R1b started from the Caucasus J2 from Anatolia and the Near East J1 the Middle East.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 14, 2011 9:23:34 GMT -5
dienekes LMAO!!! a troll which creates illusions regarding ancient greek genes. Feeding behaviors which led Greece to where we are today... fucking nuts...
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Nov 14, 2011 11:07:36 GMT -5
Interesting Read and Dienekes blog has many good things to be read backed by scientific data and sources where he is not expressing his opinion and emotions (as delusional, disturbed and dire need for medication -- Pyrros is --talking about nonsense like toponyms).
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Post by derk on Nov 14, 2011 12:19:06 GMT -5
dienekes LMAO!!! a troll which creates illusions regarding ancient greek genes. Feeding behaviors which led Greece to where we are today... f**king nuts... Pyyros, please get the fact that today's hellenes are direct descendants of ancient greeks, nothing you say can change it, especially scientifically unsupported assumptions you make regarding toponyms...
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 14, 2011 14:06:06 GMT -5
Interesting Read and Dienekes blog has many good things to be read backed by scientific data and sources where he is not expressing his opinion and emotions (as delusional, disturbed and dire need for medication -- Pyrros is --talking about nonsense like toponyms). Aha, so *proven* evidence coming via FACTS is nonsense, while weed-smoking dudes which build up an amateur site, is considered ....scientific data... (Lord almighty show some mercy) Anyway, here is my nonsense, and before 1917 (with the massive renamings) things were even worse (or better depending on which wagon you ride) ..... (here i am presenting only Morias, the southern place of Greece) Kap. III. Verzeichnis der slavischen geographischen Namen nach Landschaften geordnet: 14. Korinth 1. Ἀραχοβίτικα 2. Βάλτος 3. Βάλτσα 4. Βέλλον 5. Βελλίνα 6. Βλαντούσια 7. Βοϊβοδᾶ 8. Γαβριᾶς 9. Ζαμπάντη 10. Ζάχολη 11. Ζεμενόν 12. Καλιάνη 13. Κλένια 14. Κολαντζίκι 15. Κουνιάνικα 16. Λεχόβη 17. Λούζι 18. Mudritsa 19. Μπουζικά 20. Μπούζι 21. Παδίτσα 22. Πουλίτσα 23. Σουσάκι 24. Τρίκαλα 15. Argolis 1. Ἄκοβα 2. Βαρδουβά 3. Βρούστι 4. Γκάζι 5. Γκέρμπεσι 6. Ζάβιτσα 7. Λεσιά 8. Μαγούλα 9. Μερζές 10. Μίλιγγον 11. Μπέλεσι 12. Μπερζοβίτικα καλύβια 13. Πανίτσα 14. Πλέσα 15. Ῥάδου 16. Ῥόβη 17. Τουρνίκι 18. Χαρβάτι 16. Achaia 1. Ἀλέσταινα 2. Ἀναστάσοβα 3. Ἀραβωνίτσα 4. Ἀραγόζενα 5. Ἀράχοβα 6. Ἀράχοβα 7. Ἄρλα 8. Βαλκουβίνα 9. Βάλτος 10. Βάλτσα 11. Βελβίτσι 12. Velia 13. Βελιβίνα 14. Βελιτσές 15. Βελλά 16. Βερβοβίτσι 17. Βεργουβίτσα 18. Βερσοβά 19. Βερσίτσι 20. Βερσοβίτσι 21. Βίδοβο 22. Βισοκά 23. Βλωβοκά 24. *Voda 25. Βόδοβα 26. Βόστιτσα 27. Βραχνί 28. Βρέσταινα ἢ Βρώσταινα 29. Βρέστενα ἢ Βρώσθαινα 30. Γαρδενά 31. Γκέρμπεσι 32. Γολέμι 33. Γουμενίτσα 34. Γρεβενόν 35. Δεσινόν 36. Δουμενά 37. Δούνιτσα 38. Δράγανον 39. Δρεστενά 40. Δροβολοβόν 41. Ζαποῦχλα 42. Ζουμπάτα 43. Κακοτάρι 44. Καλάβρυτα 45. Καλέντζι 46. Καλούσι 47. Καμενιάνον 48. Καμενίτζα 49. Καμενίτσα 50. Κεράσοβα 51. Klokova 52. Κόκοβα 53. Κουνινά 54. Κράβαρι 55. Κράλη 56. Κρασέτσα 57. Κρόκοβα 58. Κυρίτσοβα 59. Λόγγος 60. Λουμπίτσα 61. Μιχόϊ 62. Μοστίτσι 63. Μουρόχοβα 64. Μπάλα 65. Μπράτι 66. Νεζερά 67. Ὀμπλοῦ 68. Πεπελενίτσα 69. Πιτίτσα 70. Ποροβίτσα 71. Πρεβεζόν 72. Pr�vetos 73. Προβοδόν 74. Προστοβίτσα 75. Ῥαλλιά 76. Ῥίκαβα 77. Ῥουφιᾶς 78. Σαλμενῖκον 79. Σανταμέρη 80. Σελιανίτικα 81. Σελίτσα Πτέρη 82. Σελλᾶ 83. Σελλιάνα 84. Σοποτόν 85. Σούβαρδον 86. Σουδενά 87. Στρέζοβα 88. Συλίβαινα 89. Συρμπάνι 90. Τοπόλοβα 91. Τραγανόν 92. Τσαραβίνα 93. Φώσταινα 94. Χελμός 95. Χόζοβα 17. Elis 1. Βερβενή 2. Βρανᾶ 3. Γαστούνη 4. Γερμοτσάνι 5. Γιάρμενα 6. Γκορτζιά 7. Γούμερον 8. Γρανιτσέϊκα 9. Δίβρι 10. Δρούβα 11. Ζερὸ ἢ Τερόν 12. Καλίτσα 13. Κάμενα 14. Κρίβησκα ἡ 15. Λέβιτσα 16. Lestenitsa 17. Λουκάβιτσα 18. Μαγούλα 19. Μακρόλογγος 20. Μεσολογγάκι 21. Μοστενίτσα 22. Μουκαβίτσα 23. Μποκοβίνα 24. Μποστενίτσα 25. Μπράτι 26. Νεμοῦτα 27. Περιγάρδι 28. Πορετζοῦ 29. Σαββάλια 30. Σκλίβα 31. Τραγάνι 32. Τσιπιανά 33. Χέλμη 34. Χλουμούτσι 18. Triphylien 1. Ἀγορελίτσα 2. Ἀγουλινίτσα 3. Ἀσούτενα 4. Βάλτα 5. Βαρυμπόπι 6. Βερβίτσα 7. Βερεστιά 8. Βιδίσοβα 9. Βλάκα 10. Βρεστόν 11. Γαρδίτσα 12. Γολέμη 13. Γόραινα 14. Δέλγα 15. Δραγόγι 16. Ζελέχοβα 17. Καλίτσενα 18. Κοπάνιτσα 19. Κοπάνιτσα 20. Κρέσταινα 21. Λεσοβίτι 22. Λογγός 23. Μακρύσια 24. Μάλα 25. Μουνδρά 26. Μπελούσι 27. Μπιζιόν 28. Μπλεμενιάνοι 29. Μπούζι 30. Μπούζι 31. Νερονίτσα 32. Νίβιτσα 33. Πανίτσα 34. Ποδογορά 35. Ῥίσοβο 36. Ῥόβια 37. Ῥογγοζιόν 38. Σελᾶ 39. Σερβοτά 40. Σκλαβέϊκα 41. Σκλίβα 42. Στροβίτσι 19. Arkadien 1. Ἀράχοβα 2. Βαλτεσινῖκον 3. Βαλτέτσι 4. Βάνενα 5. Βελιγοστῆ 6. Βέρβαινα 7. Βερβίτσα 8. Βερζοβᾶ 9. Βερτζοβᾶ 10. Βλόκος 11. Βλυζανά 12. Βοϊβόντα 13. Βούτσι 14. Γαλτενά 15. Γαρδίκι 16. Γαρζενῖκος 17. Γαρούνι 18. Γαυριά 19. Γλανιτζιά 20. Γλόγοβα 21. Γορίτσα 22. Γρανίτσα 23. Δερμπούνι 24. Δερνικέϊκα 25. Δίβριτσα 26. Δολιανά 27. Δραγαλεβός 28. Ἑλληνίτσα 29. Ζάβιτσα 30. Ζαράκοβα 31. Ζάτουβα 32. Ζέλι 33. Ζέρζοβα 34. Ζιγοβίστι 35. Καλλιάνοι 36. Καλτεζαί 37. Καμινίτσα 38. Κανδρέβα 39. Καρύταινα 40. Κερέσοβα 41. Κλιβοκᾶ 42. Κλίνιτσα 43. Κοκορᾶ 44. Κοπρινίτσα 45. Κότσακας 46. Κράβαρι 47. Κραμποβός 48. Λιμποβίσι 49. Λογγάρι 50. Λιμπόσοβον 51. Μαγούλα 52. Μαγούλιανα 53. Μάσκλινα 54. Μεληγοῦ 55. Μερζές 56. Μερκινέζα 57. Μπάλα 58. Μπεζενῖκος 59. Μπέλεσι 60. Μποβέρχι 61. Μποκοβίνα 62. Μπολιάρι 63. Μπούζα 64. Μπρατίτσα 65. Νεμνίτσα 66. Ντουμινᾶ 67. Ξηροκαρύταινα 68. Παλαιοβάνενα 69. Παραλογγοί 70. Πιάνα 71. Πλέσια 72. Ποδογορά 73. Πραστός 74. Ῥάδου 75. Ῥεκούνι 76. Σέρβον 77. Σεργιανά 78. Σίταινα 79. Στεμνίτσα 80. Στόλος 81. Στρούζα 82. Συλίμνα 83. Συριάμον 84. Τοπορίστα 85. Τραγόϊ 86. Τρεστενά 87. Τρεστενά 88. Τσάρνη 89. Τσερβίκος 90. Τσιαρέσι 91. Τσιπιανά 92. Χελμός 93. Χράνου 94. Χρυσοβίτσι 20. Messenien 1. Ἀβαρῖνος 2. Ἀβαρινίτσα 3. Ἄκοβος 4. Ἀναστάσοβα 5. Ἀράχοβα 6. Ἀράχοβα 7. Βάλτουκα 8. Βελίκα 9. Γαράντζα 10. Γαρδίκι 11. Γιάλοβα 12. Γκολέμι 13. Γρεμπενή 14. Γριβιτσά 15. Γρίζι 16. Δήμοβα 17. Ζαγάρενα 18. Ζαπάντι 19. Ζερμπίστα 20. Ἴκλενα 21. Καλέτζι 22. Κατσίκοβον 23. Κριβίτσα 24. Κρυφτσανοῦ 25. Λογγά 26. Μαγούλα 27. Μάκραινα 28. Μίσκα 29. Μπάλα 30. Μπαρμπανίτσα 31. Πολαίνα 32. Πολιανή 33. Πουλίτσι 34. Ῥάδον 35. Ῥίπαινα 36. Ῥομήρι 37. Σίτσοβα 38. Σκλαβικά 39. Τσερνίτσα 40. Τσιρναόρα 41. Χρύσοβ 21. Lakonien 1. Ἀγόριανη 2. Ἀράχοβα 3. Ἀράχοβα 4. Ἀρδούβιστα 5. Βαρσινίκον 6. Βάρσοβον 7. Βελιές 8. Βούταμον 9. Βρέσθενα 10. Βρίνικος 11. Βυροῦ 12. Γαρδαλεβός 13. Γαρδενίκια pl. 14. Γαστίτζα 15. Γιδοβίτσα 16. Γκορτζιά 17. Γοδένα 18. Γόλα 19. Γοράνοι 20. Γούρνιτσα 21. Γρίτζενα 22. Δολοί 23. Ἐζερός 24. Ἔλια 25. Ζάγανον 26. Ζαρνάτα 27. Ζελίνα 28. Ζερμπίτσα 29. Ζούπαινα 30. Καρύτια ἢ Καρήνεια 31. Καρύτσα 32. Κλαδᾶ 33. Κόζι 34. Κόζια 35. Κοτίτσα 36. Κουρνός 37. Λάζος 38. Λάζος 39. Λεμπόκα 40. Λιαντίνα ἢ Μαντίνα 41. Λιασίνοβα 42. Λιμπόχοβα 43. Λογγάρι 44. Λοσνά 45. Μαγούλα 46. Μελίγοι 47. Μπεζάνι 48. Μπελιγκράδια 49. Μπολαριός 50. Μπολιάνα 51. Μπολιανή 52. Μπουγδᾶνος 53. Νίκοβον 54. Νομπρεβίτσα 55. Ὄραχος 56. Ὀψινοχώρια 57. Παγανειά, Παγανέα 58. Πανίτσα 59. Πλέσσα 60. Πολιάνα 61. Πολοβίτσα 62. Ῥεγκόζενα 63. Ῥεκίτσα 64. Ῥιβιώτισσα 65. Ῥόζοβα 66. Σβήνα 67. Σελίνιτσα 68. Σελινίτσα 69. Σελίτσα 70. Σέλιτσα 71. Σελίτσα 72. Σερβέϊκα 73. Σκλαβηνία 74. Σκλαβοχώρι 75. Σοχᾶ 76. Τόμπρα 77. Τούνι 78. Τροσκενά 79. Τσεροβᾶς 80. Χέλμος 81. Χέρσοβα kroraina.com/knigi/en/mv/index.htmlwow, that's LOAD of nonsense, right?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 14, 2011 14:08:45 GMT -5
Interesting Read and Dienekes blog has many good things to be read backed by scientific data and sources where he is not expressing his opinion and emotions (as delusional, disturbed and dire need for medication -- Pyrros is --talking about nonsense like toponyms). I went through my initial post, and through your post a second time. Can't you see that i was claiming exactly someth supposedly "anti-slav" (read: pro-greek) here? I was saying that INDEED you may find places with NO slav genes, (despite the sea of slavic toponyms), which is a rather pro-greek position , and you attack me??? some ppl are all so confused, that they can't tell smth pro-greek from smth pro-slav anymore ..... PS I edited those last two posts, *SO* many times as to make them "civil". I hope the readers appreciate that.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 14, 2011 14:47:53 GMT -5
And as if this was not enough, here come for Arcadia, Messinia the toponyms changed in 1927, arkadiamessiniai guess the list would be so huge for the rest of prefectures of south greece. If vasmer registered about 500 slav toponyms in 1940+, i guess the number was more than 2000+ pre-1800. Now if we include Epiros and Makedonia..... it would cause some ppl here a heart attack, so i better leave this for later ;D
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Post by derk on Nov 14, 2011 16:28:54 GMT -5
*No ad-hominems, stick to the topic derk*
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Post by terroreign on Nov 15, 2011 1:09:26 GMT -5
derk, either you start adding citations or at the very least substantial reasoning to your claims/opinions or you will be edited. thank you for participating.
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Post by derk on Nov 15, 2011 14:02:36 GMT -5
derk, either you start adding citations or at the very least substantial reasoning to your claims/opinions or you will be edited. thank you for participating. I agree, but I want you to show the same treatment toward your friend. Pyros- DON'T TELL ME HE SHOWS SOURCES IN EVERY POST. MOST OF HIS POST INSULT PEOPLE. NEXT TIME, IF HIS POST THAT INCLUDES AN INSULT REMAINS HERE AFTER I CONTACT YOU ABOUT IT, I WILL TAKE THIS TO ADMINISTRATION. EITHER EDIT BACK MY POST WHICH DID NOT INCLUDE ANY INSULTS.
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Post by terroreign on Nov 15, 2011 14:36:01 GMT -5
derk behave and stay civil as per forum regulations.
i'm glad you agree.
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Post by uz on Nov 16, 2011 14:09:17 GMT -5
derk, either you start adding citations or at the very least substantial reasoning to your claims/opinions or you will be edited. thank you for participating. I agree, but I want you to show the same treatment toward your friend. Pyros- DON'T TELL ME HE SHOWS SOURCES IN EVERY POST. MOST OF HIS POST INSULT PEOPLE. NEXT TIME, IF HIS POST THAT INCLUDES AN INSULT REMAINS HERE AFTER I CONTACT YOU ABOUT IT, I WILL TAKE THIS TO ADMINISTRATION. EITHER EDIT BACK MY POST WHICH DID NOT INCLUDE ANY INSULTS. ts tss tssss tsssssss.......rat.
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Mar 19, 2012 14:19:41 GMT -5
dienekes LMAO!!! a troll which creates illusions regarding ancient greek genes. Feeding behaviors which led Greece to where we are today... f**king nuts... Dienekes did not produce the study, he has access to them. I don't, so I used his blog and data he extracted from the study. I do in no way agree with him, though you probably would. He is into a similar fad as you. The anti-blond rherotic, Aryans were really mediterreneans, that kind of nonsense.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 21, 2012 4:19:07 GMT -5
^^ i am not anti-blond. most Bosnians are blond
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Mar 22, 2012 21:03:09 GMT -5
So they must the most sneaky Yugos. Tall, blonde, they must be international bankers.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 23, 2012 9:18:28 GMT -5
So they must the most sneaky Yugos. Tall, blonde, they must be international bankers. where exactly is the verb in the above delirium ?
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Apr 1, 2012 0:06:33 GMT -5
must -helping verb be- verb
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