atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
Posts: 3,124
|
Post by atdhetar on Jan 29, 2013 16:59:43 GMT -5
balshajt are a noble albanian family and that name still prevails in that region,
Could be but this Balshajt family has no links to what we have ben discussing here, Balsa III had an only son (heir) who died a child in 1415 so at the time of Balsa III death there was no more heirs and Balsa III left all to his uncle Stefan "the tall" Lazarevic.
The Balsic family whos founder was Balsa I is gone, no descendents are left.
A lot of the Balsic family is easily traced because the oldest legislative document of Zeta exists it was recorded in 1368 And also a decree by Balsa II in 1395.
So again I am telling you that there is no Serbian epic poetry in my posts nor are there Albanian attempts to rewrite history.
its deffinitely the same noble family but both albs and serbs appear to be claiming them, now i do not want to fall into the trap of arguing a point blindingly because we have always been told that the balshaj family was albanian and they had many disputes with serbian rulers and other albanian nobility like Topiaj and Dukagjini, i may eat my words here but i genuinely want to find out more because the information on them is quite sparse, what we know is that they ruled over the northern territories i.e. present day shkodra. in the interest of curiosity i would be grateful to anyone who can shed some light into this.
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Jan 29, 2013 17:08:54 GMT -5
a simple wiki en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bal%C5%A1a_Ithere are many examples of Albanians in serbian epic stories but after being actually slavenized or propoganda of their trade of them Slavonic clerics that write the history for the serbs just the same as in greek epic stories .... cant you guys understand that its the original people the then Illyrians and the now Albanians that was the nucleus of your epic histories ......its the Illyrian myths that had kindled among the south slavs the national idea by inspiring in them self-confidence and pride.
|
|
lokii
Commanding Moderator
Posts: 126
|
Post by lokii on Jan 29, 2013 17:30:32 GMT -5
its deffinitely the same noble family but both albs and serbs appear to be claiming them, now i do not want to fall into the trap of arguing a point blindingly because we have always been told that the balshaj family was albanian and they had many disputes with serbian rulers and other albanian nobility like Topiaj and Dukagjini,
Your reference is concerning Balsa II, The disputes were first with Duras Illijic (Crnojevic family) who was the ruler of upper Zetta His sons killed Duras and the Balsic family had entire rule of Zeta, he later took on the Topia Family and eventualy defeated karl and ruling over Duress, Karl Topia called on the Ottomans to help and the Sultan sent an army who defeated Balsa II's army and Ivanis Mrnjavcevic's forces (Mrnjavcevic was the ruling family in Macedonia) and chopped off Balsa II's head. Durad II Balsic succeded Balsa II, Durad was the son from Balsa I's second son ( Stracimir)and so Balsa II was his uncle.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 18:13:30 GMT -5
its deffinitely the same noble family but both albs and serbs appear to be claiming them, now i do not want to fall into the trap of arguing a point blindingly because we have always been told that the balshaj family was albanian and they had many disputes with serbian rulers and other albanian nobility like Topiaj and Dukagjini, i may eat my words here but i genuinely want to find out more because the information on them is quite sparse, what we know is that they ruled over the northern territories i.e. present day shkodra. in the interest of curiosity i would be grateful to anyone who can shed some light into this. I know we all like to believe or claim pure and uninterrupted lineages but there are basic facts that we can't ignore. One is that Balkan nobility, like European nobility, often tried to make alliances and consolidate their power by making marriages among each other and so they end up crossing what we today think as hard ethnic or cultural lines. The second is that the further back in time we go, the more mythical the question of origins becomes, especially considering that borders and identities were a lot more soft and fluid than in our own time. Most of what I have read essentially says that the Balsic/Balsha (same thing) family was of mixed roots, which makes sense to me, and it goes to explain why they were well liked and accepted by their Albanian subjects, imo.
|
|
atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
Posts: 3,124
|
Post by atdhetar on Jan 29, 2013 18:36:23 GMT -5
Thats an interesting take, sometimes the truth lies somewhere in the middle, this is a classic case of sides getting carried away
|
|
|
Post by amateurs on Jan 29, 2013 22:51:18 GMT -5
You guys still worry about origins?
Here's your origin: 50,000 years ago, you left Eastern Africa, along with everyone else that is now settled in Europe and Asia. Along the way you met with some Netherlanders, creating the foundation for the future Albanian. The End!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2013 23:38:30 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by littleboyfatman on Jan 29, 2013 23:45:48 GMT -5
You guys still worry about origins? Here's your origin: 50,000 years ago, you left Eastern Africa, along with everyone else that is now settled in Europe and Asia. Along the way you met with some Netherlanders, creating the foundation for the future Albanian. The End! hoo take it easy boy... the albanians where first homo sapiens sapiens of europe... maybe you talk about serbs???
|
|
atdhetar
Amicus
tonight we dine in hell!
Posts: 3,124
|
Post by atdhetar on Jan 30, 2013 7:00:37 GMT -5
You guys still worry about origins? Here's your origin: 50,000 years ago, you left Eastern Africa, along with everyone else that is now settled in Europe and Asia. Along the way you met with some Netherlanders, creating the foundation for the future Albanian. The End! its not a question of origin of a specific family not the ethnos of an entire peoples
|
|
|
Post by historian on Jul 17, 2014 10:19:55 GMT -5
its deffinitely the same noble family but both albs and serbs appear to be claiming them, now i do not want to fall into the trap of arguing a point blindingly because we have always been told that the balshaj family was albanian and they had many disputes with serbian rulers and other albanian nobility like Topiaj and Dukagjini, i may eat my words here but i genuinely want to find out more because the information on them is quite sparse, what we know is that they ruled over the northern territories i.e. present day shkodra. in the interest of curiosity i would be grateful to anyone who can shed some light into this. I know we all like to believe or claim pure and uninterrupted lineages but there are basic facts that we can't ignore. One is that Balkan nobility, like European nobility, often tried to make alliances and consolidate their power by making marriages among each other and so they end up crossing what we today think as hard ethnic or cultural lines. The second is that the further back in time we go, the more mythical the question of origins becomes, especially considering that borders and identities were a lot more soft and fluid than in our own time. Most of what I have read essentially says that the Balsic/Balsha (same thing) family was of mixed roots, which makes sense to me, and it goes to explain why they were well liked and accepted by their Albanian subjects, imo. The Balsha family or Balsa as you like to call them arrived on the scene when another family that sounds similar in Italian (Balzo) happened to rule Albania as Angevin overlords or Neapolitan rulers.
|
|
Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
|
Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 18, 2014 2:49:57 GMT -5
Really, has there ever been an Albanian-Serbian war; or at least a battle where the two forces met? And I mean a real war, with armies facing each other. Not some Kosovarë guerrillas ambushing Serb soldiers and selling off their organs, or some Serb genocidal freaks murdering civilians. there can never be a war between humans and frogs. I dont think the serbs would like that you called them frogs ..please keep it clean
ahahahaha rexxy moderating ....my first one in 5 years maybe
|
|