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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 18, 2007 2:56:17 GMT -5
The cannon equipment and training was provided by either the Brits or from the French, so the eagle was unlikely to have come from either. Interesting. I know Ali styled his dominion 'Albania' and so it was cited by many other European writers... but I didnt imagine the eagle springing back up so early...
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Post by diurpaneus on Dec 18, 2007 10:26:38 GMT -5
it`s the montenegrin or serbian eagle
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 18, 2007 13:15:37 GMT -5
If you knew who Ali Pasha was, you would know that he had nothing to with Montenegro nor Serbia.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 18, 2007 13:35:13 GMT -5
I don't think that eagle has anything to do with Albania..it was probably equipment stolen from the Byzantines.... You're eagle is different.. This is the Byzantine one.. notice the ball on the claw and the crown on top?
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 18, 2007 13:36:33 GMT -5
The Byzantines never had those cannons; nor any such cannons, they lagged badly in that department. they are provided by the British and French. They were modern cannons of that time.
And if Byzantine cannons did exist(from hundreds of years earlier) the metal would have been taken by the Turks long long ago before Ali.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 18, 2007 13:40:21 GMT -5
I shudder to think Ali used an Orthodox emblem on his cannons... I highly doubt it..
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 18, 2007 15:46:21 GMT -5
The Albanian flag there is modern, it was revised after numerous different versions. The early ones were more akin to the Byzantine Eagle. The new one was specifically designed to be different.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Dec 18, 2007 16:08:19 GMT -5
Toskaliku
Very interesting. I think there are two possibilities here. Either Ali pasha Tepelena, like Karamahmud Bushatliu, wanted to portray himself as a legitimate heir of Skanderbeg. This isn't unplausible. Skanderbeg was also referred to as Prince of Epirus. It is known that Ali pasha worked to establish a link with ancient rulers, like Pyrros. The other possibility is that Omer Vrioni's men put that eagle there. He was one of Ali pasha's generals as you know. The Vrioni family claimed descent from the Palaiologos, who also used the double headed eagle as their emblem (they were Byzantines).
And like the brothers Thomas & Demetrios Palaiologos, Omer Vrioni was also treacherous.
Diur
No genious, it has nothing to do with Serbs or Montenegro. Not even if you're speaking of origins. This symbol was a Byzantine symbol originally. The Byzantines in turn inherited it from the time when the Western Roman Empire had yet not fallen. It was a convenient symbol, each head symbolizing the two halfs. Many say that this symbol is infact even more ancient, as it has been found in archaelogical excavations, leading researchers to suspect a Hittite origin of the symbol.
We Albanians adopted it too; Skanderbeg had it as his banner against th Ottomans. Ali pasha's decision to adopt it too was in no way connected to Serbs or Montenegrins.
Canaris
Skanderbeg's eagle wasn't entirely identical to the modern one either. But your argument should not be disregarded due to the Vrioni link I mentioned above.
Do you also shudder when knowing that Verush Andruco, Odhisea Andruco's father was a close friend to Ali pasha? That several renown and notorious heroes, including Odhisea, were loyal to him until his death? Karaiskaqi for example. Dhiako. How about Vangjel Zapa who reintroduced the Olympic games?
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viktor1
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Post by viktor1 on Dec 19, 2007 7:45:09 GMT -5
Canaris
The avatar of albanian eagle is nodern,,,and tell me how it looked like about 300 years a go...?
It is an Albanian symbol from that time!!!
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Post by diurpaneus on Dec 19, 2007 10:21:11 GMT -5
If you knew who Ali Pasha was, you would know that he had nothing to with Montenegro nor Serbia. I know who ali pasha was. He was the prick who destroyed the Vlach city of Moscopole, the most beauftyfull city from the Balkans after Constantinople.
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 19, 2007 14:16:38 GMT -5
Stuff happens when you dont pay tribute.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 19, 2007 15:44:34 GMT -5
Stuff happens when you dont pay tribute. Yikes! You better believe stuff happens ..Ali should know..he lost his head when he didn't pay his...you live by the sword you die by it...
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 19, 2007 15:46:57 GMT -5
It was actually that Ali moved to proclaim independence from the Porter at the wrong time; and was betrayed by all of the people he believed were for him(including his own sons)...
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Post by grksdied4you on Dec 20, 2007 17:18:40 GMT -5
Toskali,
You did not provide a source. How about I give you a picture of Arnold Schwarzanegger and tell you its my sister? Where did you find that picture. What are you trying to prove. God, please give me back my 10 seconds that it took me to read this thread.
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 20, 2007 17:23:39 GMT -5
The source is in the picture. Right-click on the pic and then click on view image. This is a cannon of Ali Pasha's found near his moque in Ioannina.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 20, 2007 19:30:52 GMT -5
was betrayed by all of the people he believed were for him(including his own sons)... His own sons....?You told me he was a nice guy..... I mean what would make you betray your own dad?
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 20, 2007 21:18:34 GMT -5
His sons were degenerates. I bet Mukhtar was still pissed that his father went on the attack against his favorite Greek prostitute.
The man was a genius though, he understood the world around him better then anyone else in the empire then.
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Post by albaniansoul on Dec 20, 2007 21:30:01 GMT -5
Even a moron understands that its from epirus. Byzantine double headed eagle = stolen from albanians of epirus.
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 20, 2007 21:57:45 GMT -5
Yea...thats how it was... exactly...
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 20, 2007 22:41:56 GMT -5
Maybe she was an Albanian prostitute..... are you throwing a curve.... or you been listening to your grandpa again?
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