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Post by radovic on Oct 27, 2007 14:35:46 GMT -5
Dude there wasn't ever discrimination against Kurds in reality. Only when they started having their stupid separatist ideas was there language restricted and such. What gets me the most is they all beg for equality in language yet choose to speak Turkish, I only ever heard Kurds (from Turkey) speak in Kurdish (mixed with Turkish) in London. I have met so many ethnic Kurds and mixed Turk Kurds here(Turkey) and all are Nationalist.None of them want a separate nation. In fact I met a very left wing Kurdish successful business man recently, he said he would hate to live in a pure Kurdish country as he doesn't even have anything in common with non Turkey born Kurds. Also he thinks the PKK are oppressors for Kurdish people, as most Kurds are Muslims and the PKK have communist ideals. Kurds say that the main reason seperatism developed was because they were repressed in Turkey. I'm not in Turkey, I never lived in Turkey and I've heard both sides claim totally different things. The only thing I know is that the Kurds now have more rights then ever before in Turkey (these rights were at least at times suppressed), fewer and fewer of them support seperatism, and the PKK is a terrorist group that has engaged in attacks against 4 states and against Kurds themselves.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Oct 28, 2007 7:03:10 GMT -5
Well I can say what I know, and that is: We now can hear Kurdish music everywhere but usually even Kurdish owned places play 15 Turkish songs, to one kurdish one. Nobody speaks in Kurdish. I was with a group of people 2 weeks ago, we went out in Ankara one was from Sivas the others from Erzincan and one from Urfa, almost all were Kurdish and a few Alevi Kurds. They spoke in Turkish throughout and even made fun of Kurdish and how its spoken.I found it quite strange that they made fun of it. I asked each ne would they want to live in a Kurdish state and allsaid No way,as that culture was repressing for women and meant that the man is the lead of the family. A couple in the group one Turkish sunni and one alevi Kurd told me how much trouble it has been for the guys family to accept a sunni girl and such- these things dont exist much around Turkish families. As for suppression as I said before it was only when they started publishing anti Turkish propoganda that they were barred from doing so. I think if u visit Turkey u will find rather than a divide between Turks and Kurds or any kind of racism its more about educated city people vs uneducated villagers. Although now thanks to the PKK there is a growing racist attitude towards normal Kurdish folks. yesterday in the South East of Turkey thousands of Kurds marched with Turkish flags and Ataturk pictures cursing the PKK. People are afraidof what is going to happen now. Thousands of men who have completed there Military service are trying to re-enrol to go to the Border. The atmosphere is tense, we all await erdogans return....
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Post by ahristos on Oct 28, 2007 9:51:21 GMT -5
guzel have u listen bbc reporters broadcast from iraq kurdistan kurd accuse ankara for bombs blasters killings of sivilians and terror i luv erdogans opinion heh ur terrorists are badest them my terrorists now who is terrorist and who liberator can u help me does americans in 1775 wash terrorist at list english have call them terrorists does greeks in 1821 wash terrorists? can u help me to learn who is terrorist and who not)
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Post by benettonsenetme on Oct 28, 2007 13:10:50 GMT -5
I still believe or want to believe that there is a way out of this vicious circle... Turkey should first wreak havoc on the PKK and the clan leaders in northern Iraq that extend support to it, then after it's finised with this first goal, proceed to extend the cultural rights of Kurds, including broadcasting rights in Kurdish, education in their mother tongue. Complemented by infrastructural and economic investments in the region (finishing the GAP for example will provide a massive boost to the economy of the region), tax incentives and heavy subsidies, an all-out land reform, tackling the feudal social and economic order, improving women's rights in the south-east, massive investment in education and health along with draconian population control measures. The Kurds may not be the ideal roommates one could have, but despite constituting app. 15 percent of Turkey's population, only 1/3 of Kurds vote for the secessionist party; there are millions of inter-marriages between Turks and Kurds; we share many cultural similarities; most Kurds have remained loyal to Turkey and there exists a shared history and an alliance dating back to 1071. We fought shoulder to shoulder on so many wars, including the defense of Gallipoli in 1915 and during Turkey's War of Independence in 1920-1922. The reasons to co-exist are more than the reasons to choose different paths.
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Post by ahristos on Oct 28, 2007 14:06:44 GMT -5
the only solution is to free ocalan and ... let them be politican party in parliament like in n irland simillar solution if not i see blady and long war
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Post by ahristos on Oct 28, 2007 14:12:16 GMT -5
for ur galipoli also have partisipate arans albs ect osmans empire dont count it gardas but they had own state after 1918 until 1926 so called kurdistan=kurds land kurds are 25% of turkeys population in meny ilis great mejority dont try to cheat ur self now we m in 2007 turks have wish to take mosuls oils every body knows it
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Post by benettonsenetme on Oct 28, 2007 14:39:25 GMT -5
Kafshe ai bith majmun, True, Turkey made many mistakes in the past by denying cultural rights to Kurds, by failing to realize that assimilation through repressive measures would prove to be counter-productive, by doing absolutely nothing to tackle the feudal economic and social order in the region and by not improving the life standard of Kurds. But, none of these justify using terrorist methods to seek one's rights; killing civilian Kurds who refuse to cooperate with the PKK, killing doctors and teachers sent to the region, blowing up schools, hospitals, governmental buldings etc. For that, the PKK will pay the price in the harsh way, while the butt-monkey Ocalan will rot in prison for the rest of his life.
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Post by yahadj on Oct 28, 2007 21:32:14 GMT -5
Guys let me tell you a miracle solution for this Kurdish problem.
First close Incirlik air base to American use. If that is not enough stop logictic support to northern iraq. Then if still no response get your troops out of Afganistan and Lebanon. Consider coiming out of NATO. Make a long term agreement with Iran for oil and natural gas. Stop supporting Israel...
Believe me within just a week the problem would be solved.
But does the current government has guts to do that?
Not sure...
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Post by benettonsenetme on Oct 29, 2007 5:22:28 GMT -5
Yahac abi,
One does not anger Rome and get away with it. Rome always strikes back. Let's refrain from rash and radical initiatives that will end up hurting us more than they will the US.
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Post by ahristos on Oct 29, 2007 7:33:50 GMT -5
what about u turk cypriots if we xpatriate all of u in turkmenistan... u are invators and not prodectors in island
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Post by ahristos on Oct 29, 2007 10:10:34 GMT -5
i know if nobody havent spoke =control u had throw to kurdish camps chemicals like sandam in the past.. you hate the rebels us sandam why u dont call them in ur parliament and free ocalan and let them be in political arena normaly to get them righits that is western freedom turks in greece are in parlament normaly and minority injoys freedom and prosperity turks from turkey have visit them meny times and they are glad for it
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Post by yahadj on Oct 29, 2007 11:04:33 GMT -5
Yahac abi, One does not anger Rome and get away with it. Rome always strikes back. Let's refrain from rash and radical initiatives that will end up hurting us more than they will the US. Everybody knows where is Rome now? So don't worry... If you are right against the aggressors you should stand up and defend yourself. Not kill your brothers... Nothing is going to happen. This is diplomacy. It is chess. No emotions. If Turkey can use his hands well US will step back and change their priorities. Then they can have their privileges again... But if you are an ally you need to be reminded what that means so you can behave like one... Isn't it clear that US wants to drag Turkey into the hell of Iraq. That is not how we are going to solve this problem. It is useless... Diplomacy against the real masterminds would work. Don't be so scared from your "Big Brother" US. They can't even control their positions in Iraq, Afganistan, palistan, their paliament, their own government, senate...
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Post by yahadj on Oct 29, 2007 11:10:28 GMT -5
Yahac abi, Let's refrain from rash and radical initiatives that will end up hurting us more than they will the US. Like what? What will happen? Let's stop talking cliches. Let's discuss what will happen if...
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Post by benettonsenetme on Oct 29, 2007 11:38:50 GMT -5
Sevgili (Dear) Yahac, Here are a few pieces of information that will give you a clue on what might happen: 1-There is approximately 80 billion dollars of hot money in Turkey. Most of it belongs to American banks. Think of what Mehmet Simsek and Merrill Lynch have in common. 2-Turkey purchases most of its weapons systems from the US. It is dependent on the Americans for spare parts. 3-The US is today the sole and uncontested super power. This is not the Cold War era, when we could play one super power against the other. 4-If the Incirlik Base is closed, it will take the Americans only a few years to build a similar base in northern Iraq. We wouldn't like that to happen, would we? Ringing a bell, sevgili (dear) Yahac? ;D
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Post by yahadj on Oct 29, 2007 11:51:03 GMT -5
Sevgili (Dear) Yahac, Here are a few pieces of information that will give you a clue on what might happen: 1-There is approximately 80 billion dollars of hot money in Turkey. Most of it belongs to American banks. Think of what Mehmet Simsek and Merrill Lynch have in common. 2-Turkey purchases most of its weapons systems from the US. It is dependent on the Americans for spare parts. 3-The US is today the sole and uncontested super power. This is not the Cold War era, when we could play one super power against the other. 4-If the Incirlik Base is closed, it will take the Americans only a few years to build a similar base in northern Iraq. We wouldn't like that to happen, would we? Ringing a bell, sevgili (dear) Yahac? ;D 1. 80 billion dollars is nothing. 70 million of people can give away a $1000 per person and you come to that number. Why not? Who cares about US money. That is their money, not your... 2. Turkey can purchase its weapons from Russia, China big deal... If you want weapons, there are so many ways to buy them. That is how Iran buys American weapons... 3. We don't claim that we will become a super power. Your superpower can't even close the mouth of Venezuela's Cahvez just at their backyard. Don't worry... 4. Air base they can built anywhere. So what? At least stay away from us. Don't make us partners in the crimes. You need a gong to understand that. Change your collabolator mentality and inferiority complex...
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Post by ahristos on Oct 29, 2007 12:42:12 GMT -5
turkeys defence is based in nato that is fact.. if ur basbacan do any moovement against nato= usa next day u have kenans evrens brothers in gov financially westerns industries employs large noumber of turks if they go away turkey gonna sufers 4 long democratic cauntries act like UK with IRA example 4 turks and prime minister is more serius and dont says i know my =kurds terrorists are betters then urs=alqaeeda turkey have 97%of wappens made in usa greece some 50% the rest is from eu cauntries kurds have financial suporte from kurds of europe and iraqians kurds i hope that they dont get trap of iranians mullahs aid usa try to calm situration if u kick diyarbakirs base u are loosers turks generals dont like it nato for them is like the word allah
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