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Post by yahadj on Oct 23, 2007 23:02:21 GMT -5
Unfortunately PKK got 8 of our soldiers as captives. And now we are forced to use diplomatic ways. Is it possible to spare those soldiers? I don't think so. Thus, what is left is to us is just negotiations with PKK. They will ask for "democratic" rights, whatever they are, and after we accept those PKK will disarm and take its place in the Turkish parliament. Then the deal will be closed... Possible? I don't know... The bottom line - this is a strategy aiming to create an atmosphere of some kind of "false victory" for both sides. But what will emerge out of this whole mess is the independant Kurdistan in Nortern Iraq. This is the main goal. Since after PKK issue would be "solved" in this way Turkey wouldn't have any pretexts left against the newly formed "Kurdistan" in Northern Iraq... Have to accept it as reality. After Kurdistan is formed US will sttle down their air bases and all kind of war equipement. The whole Kurdistan will be their military base. In some 5-10 years Iran ans Syria eventually would get whatever is planned for them. The Greater Middle East project will succeed. What a scenario, ha?
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 24, 2007 0:12:55 GMT -5
I am truly surprised at Turkey... having so much patience in dealing with the PKK.... so many innocent lives.... and now this,,the topping on the cake.. In a way many were right that the Americans will never leave Turkey enter Iraq.... I guess some shifting of alliances are in order... and this government has shown it's weaknesses again.
Turkey has some tough choices to make down the road...
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Post by depletedreasons on Oct 24, 2007 7:24:40 GMT -5
Turkey is concerned about the US policies more than the PKK violence, I reckon.
However, I do not think that shifting alliance would be in a day or two. It will take years, I believe.
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Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Rhezus on Oct 24, 2007 9:08:42 GMT -5
I'm not sure kurds understand what is patience and compromise. They need quite a "cold shower" to wake up instead. If you offer them a finger, they want your whole hand, cut..
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Post by yahadj on Oct 24, 2007 9:37:42 GMT -5
I can simply see what will happen. They will deliver PKK terrorist but after they get our promise to deal with them in democratic way- it means the "forgiveness law" (pismanlik yasasi) will be passed. They have already started talking about that in our parliament. Then some more rights for Kurds- if anyhting left. And garranty that we don't interfere with Kurdistan in Northern Iraq. Then they will do the Kirkuk referandum and annex it to Kurdistan- oil rich Kurdistan with the help of US and Turkey (we will be forced to be good neighbors- since we have close collaborators of West as in government) will get somewhere...
Then the process of reshaping Middle east will gain new momentum. Syria and Iran will be influenced in passifying or destructive way. Turkey will always collaborate faitfully with his "allies"...
Long, painful and shameful years are to come for Turkey and the region...
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 24, 2007 21:03:29 GMT -5
"After Kurdistan is formed US will sttle down their air bases and all kind of war equipement. The whole Kurdistan will be their military base. In some 5-10 years Iran ans Syria eventually would get whatever is planned for them. The Greater Middle East project will succeed."
Very interesting point. How are they going to influence bodies like the UN to reach their goal?
Do you think the West will pressurise the Turrkish govt to give up its south-east corner?
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Post by yahadj on Oct 24, 2007 22:21:18 GMT -5
UN is a puppet organization. US and EU can make anything accepted if its not against Russian and Chinese interests. In this case those two countries wouldn't care about what is going on in middle east...
Under what pretext they got into Iraq? Well, if you have to look for justification of war against Iran here you have the famous nuclear program, Syria's antagonism towards Israel and Lebanon is good enough to put it under fire.
Why do you have to look for other excuses?
As far as the southeast of Turkey is concerned- I am not so sure about that. The plans of US underestimates the human factor- Turks are crazy and won't mind dying for their land. Millions of suicidal Turks will be a bad surprise for the West.
Kind of difficult to understand in the current material world of West...Where a comfortable life is above everything...
Turks may be lazy workers or scientists but when it comes to fighting for their country they won't hesitate to go to the extreme. Dying in the battle for the country is the highest level of achievement for a Turk. Nothing can beat the status of shehadet - martyrdom.
We have proved that so many times. I hope they don't test that one more time...
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Post by ahristos on Oct 31, 2007 9:26:03 GMT -5
and now erdogan bengs usa for to stop kurds! kurds have eus sympathy others cauntries of eu are neutrals or they arent atlist against kurds
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Post by yahadj on Oct 31, 2007 9:51:07 GMT -5
He begs because he is a puppet. He needs to ask his masters what is the next step.
The public in Turkey is fed up with that. We will see how longer they will listen to him...
Even the blind can see their collabolator games...
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Post by ahristos on Nov 1, 2007 11:07:20 GMT -5
i say the only solution is to call them in parlament and let the mountains... bbc told that lawer arrested because he has pick up the body of a daeth kurd guerilla from the road....what is that? why they let the bodys in the road? dont you get example from n irland? and you ask for the w thrace turks situation they have representatives in parlament and they joint education and they broke with them customs minors righits if and whwn they married in them 13! what if state throws muthers fathers in jale? oh yes u gonna call greeks brutals!
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Post by yahadj on Nov 1, 2007 22:49:10 GMT -5
Calling puppets to parliament won't help. Their job is different. They don't represent Kurds in Turkey... Even if you call them they won't come. It is against masters' plans...
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Post by tripwire on Nov 1, 2007 23:16:25 GMT -5
What happened to you Turks? You used to rule the world, now you can't even keep your eastern province in order and make autonomous decisions in the interest of your people's physical security. I'm just shocked how at how weak Turkey appears in this thing with these rebels. If anything, after what Turkey did to help the US and Israel in their 'history', Turkish generals ought to have been calling the shots at the planning stage when these wars were even considered in Washington. You don't stake out your claim at this late stage. What happened to you guys? Looks like you've been whipped into second class here. Wake up guys, you don't even have a clue as to the power you hold over the US military in this mix.
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Post by ahristos on Nov 2, 2007 6:43:11 GMT -5
Rise is coming to give u instructions ha ha
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Post by yahadj on Nov 2, 2007 9:03:40 GMT -5
The peaceful plan of getting rid of PKK is working. The military operation was never meant to happen. It was a game to make PKK believe that they are getting more popular. And to give an excuse to the Iraqi Kurds when they will hand over their PKK "bothers" to Turkey.... Now Rice came to give some instructions, then Erdogan will get the final instructions in Washington. Then as I projected PKK will be handed to Turkey. WOW big victory for Turkey!!! Then Iraki Kurdistan will proclaim its independance. Turkey will stay out of Kurdistan's business. Kerkuk will be given to Kurdistan. Kurdistan will become a new mandate of US, where all US military bases will be stationed. Shia and Sunni Iraqi states will be formed, as well. Syria will get close to Sunni, Iran to Shia state. They will be used as baits and agents against those two. Then one day in the future, Iran and Syria will get whatever is planned for them. Turkey will emerge as regional power under the support of US and EU. The "Soft Islamic" democracy invention of our masters will be established in Turkey and exported to all Muslim countries via spiritual leadership of Turkey and the strong hand of military and intelligence services of US. D8 will be used as platform for inforcement of that ... What a plan! And it will happen...
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Post by ahristos on Nov 2, 2007 10:39:58 GMT -5
Rise has declare PKK terrorists she gives to you u must give now is ur turne what als they wond from you? ?? lets see it
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Post by benettonsenetme on Nov 2, 2007 14:41:52 GMT -5
What happened to you Turks? You used to rule the world, now you can't even keep your eastern province in order and make autonomous decisions in the interest of your people's physical security. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Guess what? US is the sole super power of the planet, enjoying a political, military, economic and cultural hegemony not enjoyed by any other previous hegemon and they can't even prevent their most precious city and their military headquarters from being attacked by aircraft hijacked by camel jockeys.
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Post by tripwire on Nov 3, 2007 0:17:35 GMT -5
" they can't even prevent their most precious city and their military headquarters from being attacked by aircraft hijacked by camel jockeys. "
How can a bunch of cavemen with box cutters bring down THREE steel structures after 56 mins, 90 mins and 3 hours burning fire for each of those buildings? More powerful white men deserve accolades for their greatest covert operation in all black ops history. Get average Americans to hand over their rights to the govt. and let them go crazy with our taxes and freedoms. Nevermind the Americans. So many out there have stood up to American meddling and have been successful, by peaceful and military means. What does America hold over the Turks? The promise of sacrificing their first born? I just don't understand how such an empire can be reduced to asking the US to let them protect their own. You think the Military Command asks Rockefeller if his money is located in the Iraqi targets they decided to flatten? NO, but Rockefeller does manage to get congress to cover his losses there, after its turned to dust. What's up with the Turks? They needed to act first, talk after goals were final. Then, you're talking to all parties from a position of strength. Remember, ownership is 9/10's of the law and you Turks own that area, crisis ...whatever you call it.
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Post by yahadj on Nov 3, 2007 4:38:21 GMT -5
Turkey first needs to reorient itself regarding its position in the world. Still the old "cold war" era mentality... Needs to solve its identity issue. Turkey is neither European neither Asian. Can't be described in narrow definitions like continents. It is culture that spread on 3 continents. It is the culture and history which defines us, much more than the location.
First we need to stop claiming we are Europeans. The most of the last 500 years of European history passed with the efforts of the most of European nations to stop and reverse our expansion towards West. So somehow being European meant being a part of the antagonization against Ottomans/Turks. And now we expect them to forget that and accept us as Europeans. No, that will not happen.
And we should stop whining about it, too. Big deal! Yeah we are not Europeans! It is the geography we are still part of it but not the culture. Is that a big deal, the end of the world? If Sultan Mehmet the Conqueror or even Ataturk saw us whining and begging at the doors of EU they would have been deeply ashamed! What happened to us?
We are big nation that can manage to have more independant foreign policies. Some more courage needed!
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Post by ahristos on Nov 3, 2007 11:57:09 GMT -5
Rise has give allready istructions.. to turkish gov turks arent europeans only a small portion of turkey is in europe and some 15.millions from 70 millions population culturally turkey is another dunia also in religion =suni muslems economically turkey is 3 wolds cauntry educational 30%are illetutals by cias page
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Post by ahristos on Nov 3, 2007 11:57:32 GMT -5
illeturals i mean
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