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Post by osmano on Apr 16, 2008 6:30:32 GMT -5
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 16, 2008 6:34:26 GMT -5
According to UN reports there are an estimated 6.5 million serbs in serbia. And not the 10 million u speak of. Serbs (Wikipedia).I use a conservative estimate of 10,000,000 though. This does not include those who I consider Serbs who don't consider themselves to be Serbs.
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Post by terroreign on Apr 16, 2008 6:35:19 GMT -5
No don't give up, I just want to speak the truth to you man.
I want you to question these ideas you have made so concrete in your mind...
Why do you recognize that we helped the serbs attack croats and bosnians, but you dont recognize that we fought the serbs ourselves? Like you said, good and bad exist together.
I am not denying that some of our people helped kill innocent muslims in bosnia or croats in croatia, but I'm saying to look at the good side! What we did that held up to our famous honor!
I dont consider montenegrins in the JNA who commited those attrocities as true montenegrins! They betrayed the rules of Cojstvo and Junastvo, and theres no turning back from that!
I wish you could see past the fact that we might have done some bad things, but look on ahead, at the positive feats we accomplished, and what we did which correspond to what we stand for.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 16, 2008 6:45:18 GMT -5
deki - the fact is that serbia and turkey have been together longer than montenegro and serbia. Montenegro was settled by Serb tribes. Serbia and Turkey were never "together" but if you are implying about Turkish assimilation then know that the few Serbs that submitted to the Turks are the Muslims in Bosnia and not Serbs as a whole. Sure they were. So why didn't they gain control of Montenegro if they were so powerful? Right... Why do you recognize that we helped the serbs attack croats and bosnians, but you dont recognize that we fought the serbs ourselves? Like you said, good and bad exist together. Montenegrins did fight Serbs. I am sure the partisans and the quisling regime sent a few squads full of Montenegrins to fight against the Chetniks. Though I wouldn't consider any Montenegrin who joins the partisans or fascists as a true Montenegrin just as I wouldn't consider any Serb who joins the partisans or fascists as a true Serb.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 16, 2008 6:59:37 GMT -5
vinjak - so you support seselj's words? Because I can guarantee you 100% the biggest reason why you are hated in the balkans is because of what seselj says right there, and the fact serbs agree with him. But serbs like to lie to themselves and hide the truth sometimes, so I'll quote: "Oni pomazu hrvate - to ti je srba, muslimane-to ti je srba, albance - to ti je srba.... Muslimani su izmisljena nacija....od srba katolika stvarili su hrvatsku naciju, hrvatski jezik je istorijski zaboravljen ovo sto se danas naziva hrvatima uglavnom su srbi katolici, njima je srpski maternji jezik." Here's some of the replys from serbs themselves: These kinds of ideas can create the deadliest of enemies, because they're ignorant, arrogant and de-humanizing!! LOL Terro these words u can find on 99% of balkan youtube videoclips.. Almost every serb video inculdes the word jebem va mmater cetnici bla bla bla... BTW i dont give a f**k what seselj says.. if its right or not doesnt consurne me... I dont give a f**k if ur from turska or if ur mother is srpkinja or siptarka or whatever,, nationality dosnt concern me.... U are really trying to highlight this hate towards serbs, as i see it Bosniaks and siptars are the ones that are makeing majority of theese comments on youtube, just look at their names.. BOSNIAK1992, BosanskiPatriot, Musliman, Mudjahedin, etc etc etc... Hhaha and did u maybe notice whos obsesed with war videos on youtube? Certanly bosniaks, just type the word korpus and u will find millions of videos and comments about serbs, mostly written from people like " BosanskiPatriot15 and so one
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 9:56:54 GMT -5
Cedo Jovanovic is one man I can say is a model for a true and honorable Serb people. I hope more follow his path. This proves your a shiqptar. He is not an honourable person. He is a drug addict and he has connections to the crime group that killed Djindjic -- a man he claims to have been his best friend. Cedomir Jovanovic is a drug addict and the most untrustable human garbage in Serbian politics.
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Apr 16, 2008 10:00:03 GMT -5
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 10:04:16 GMT -5
A lot of people think Serbia has been demonised by other countries and that there is a hidden agenda against Serbia, some Serbs perhaps believe the Vatican or the Germans are behind it or some other conspiracy theory! There is some truth to this. When Slovenia and Croatia started aggitating for independence there were only two countries who supported them -- Austria and the Vatican. The Vatican did it becuase they were catholic countries. Austria did it for various historical reasons and because it was in it's interests. The FR Germany only became involved in adopting an anti-Serb agenda after Serbian politicians started calling the re-unified Germany the Fourth Reich and resisting German attempts to reassert it's influence in mitteleurope. Not true. It all came to the geopolitical situation in the 1990s. We showed the wrong attitude to receive any support -- as my above sentence mentions. In August of 1991, some prominent Serb poltiicians declared support for the August Coup in the USSR against Gorbachev. Ity is only after this moment that the U.S. and most western states adopted anti-Serb politics. Before this most of the west had a pro-Serb view.
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 10:18:30 GMT -5
We were not allied with serbia when they annexed us in 1918, or in WW2 when we strived for an independent Montenegro and allied with the Italians against the chetniks who wanted to take our country. In WWI you were allied with Serbia. As were France, Britain, and U.S.. Remember, both countries were on the same side in WWII. In WWII, more Montenegrins joined the Chetniks and Partisans then joined the Italian occupiers. Your own claimant to the thrown refused to support the Italian occupiers and was jailed in a concentration camp because of this. Not only that but he declared loyalty to the Yugoslav king. Hence we were allies. Not only that but many of the "Green forces" fighting for the Italians had their members desert to the the Chetniks or partisans. Not only that but Sekula Drljevic, a collaborator, was arrested by the Italians and exiled from Montenegro because he had no support in Montenegro. When Srebrenica was happenning you were part of FRY and the Montenegrins supported the actions of Serbs in Bosnia. When Vukovar was being attacked, Montenegrins were allied to the Serbs and attacking Dubrovnik. In fact Montenegro sent in it's own TDF's tyo attack Dubrovnik, while Serb TDF's were rebelling not to be sent to fight. Until the NATO bombing began, the leadership of Montenegro (led by your hero Djukanovic) supported Milosevic's actions in Kosovo. Yet Vlade Divac is a nationalist Serb. He was one of the first athletes in Yugoslavia to demonstrate his nationalism when he grabbed a croat flag at a match in argentina and ripped it. Furthermore, Djindjic supported the Greater Serb ideology in the early 90s (having met with Karadzic several times) and was opposed to both an independent kosovo and montenegro. So basically. You only love the shiqptar drug addict Jovanovic.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 16, 2008 11:38:39 GMT -5
Wait a minute, Serbs most hated? I say albs are the most hated, with bulg,romanians competing for positions 2,3.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 16, 2008 12:05:05 GMT -5
Wait a minute, Serbs most hated? I say albs are the most hated, with bulg,romanians competing for positions 2,3. I wasn’t aware Romanians were hated. For what reason/s pray tell.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 16, 2008 12:40:05 GMT -5
Wait a minute, Serbs most hated? I say albs are the most hated, with bulg,romanians competing for positions 2,3. I wasn’t aware Romanians were hated. For what reason/s pray tell. Romanians generally are cool per se, its just that they produce a lot of criminals, burglars, etc... Romanians broke twice into my house.
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 13:30:08 GMT -5
I wasn’t aware Romanians were hated. For what reason/s pray tell. Romanians generally are cool per se, its just that they produce a lot of criminals, burglars, etc... Romanians broke twice into my house. Nah. Romanians aren't criminal. It's only Gypsies from Romania that are a problem. I don't count Gypsies as being Romanians.
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stickinthemud
Membrum
Economist, Historian, Philosopher
Posts: 131
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Post by stickinthemud on Apr 16, 2008 14:02:01 GMT -5
Local antagonisms.
Serbia just gained popularity because foreigners started involving themselves within Serbia's politics. Serbs are good people and not all that much different than their neighbors in traditions and customs.
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 14:05:06 GMT -5
Local antagonisms. Serbia just gained popularity because foreigners started involving themselves within Serbia's politics. Serbs are good people and not all that much different than their neighbors in traditions and customs. I don't understand what your trying to say. Are you talking about Serbia outside of the west and certain areas of the Balkans. I know in South America, Serbia is viewed as a victim of American imperialism and as a result Serbia is not hated.
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stickinthemud
Membrum
Economist, Historian, Philosopher
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Post by stickinthemud on Apr 16, 2008 14:12:40 GMT -5
Local antagonisms. Serbia just gained popularity because foreigners started involving themselves within Serbia's politics. Serbs are good people and not all that much different than their neighbors in traditions and customs. I don't understand what your trying to say. Are you talking about Serbia outside of the west and certain areas of the Balkans. I know in South America, Serbia is viewed as a victim of American imperialism and as a result Serbia is not hated. Certainly I didn't mean Serbia is universally hated because of the publicity. In most Western countries Serbia is considered belligerent which translates into being admirable to some other nations suspicious of Western intentions. By local antagonisms I mean there already exist a base for negative information to disseminate about Serbia or Serbs. The opposite is true that certain Serbs convey the same information about their neighbors such as the Croats and Albanians, etc.
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Post by terroreign on Apr 16, 2008 14:42:43 GMT -5
radovic you're one of the worst kind of serbs, the kind that deep down supports fascism and discrimination, but on a public level act as if you are unbiased, and you believe you're right.
I also find you don't often second-guess your claims, even if they're quite extreme accusations, and besides this without evidence or a sufficient explanation.
Serbia's biggest enemy is itself, paranoia and extreme nationalism will be the end of you.
Many in serbia are realizing this, many support Cedomir who is by far the best speaker and politician in Serbia (I've watched interviews with boris tadic, kostunica and tomislav nikolic, velimir ilic).
He is not afraid to answer the questions that the rest avoid, and because of it there are people against him, the main party in serbia, the killers of dzindzic, the chetniks, and radovic.
Being an open-minded realist is not something you learn over night radovic, so I have no hopes in you just yet.
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 14:53:04 GMT -5
I'm against him because he claims to be a "liberal democrat" yet he is the most dogmatic, extremist and vi9olent of all the people in Serbia -- the radicals being the exception. His polciies would be disastrouse for Serbia.
The killers of Djindjic are not against him, because he has connections to them.
He never tries to answer questions. He just takes the view of "Blame Serbia and the Serbs." Yet he never wants to mention the fact that alot of the problems were made worst by him when he was in power.
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Post by terroreign on Apr 16, 2008 14:54:29 GMT -5
Yes we were allied with serbia in WW1, I didn't say we weren't kradovic.
Our countries were NOT on the same side during ww2 instead utterly divided.
And more Montenegrins joined the partisans than the chetniks, so what?
But I focus here on geography, Old Montenegro (Original Montenegro) was were the Zelenasi were in most power and had the majority support. And there they welcomed the Italians as allies much do to the fact to protect them from the serbs, as well as because the Italian King was married to a Crnogorka.
The official flag during Italian occupation was the Alaj-Barjak (Like today's) and this was chosen by the people.
I respect this and agree that Italians were better allies to us than the Serbs or the Russians ever been to us, because they helped us in our time of need.
The Montenegrin public were openly against the pro-serb regime during the 90's, this is a clear fact.
Let him rip the croatian flag, thats his choice which i dont support, but at least he doesnt claim croats are serbs, like your idol in the initial video does.
And Dzindzic during the early 90's was a supporter of the MOC and good friends with Stevo Vucinic the president of the Crnogorska Partija in Serbia. So really what you say is obselete.
Your albs have more allies in the balkans than do the serbs.
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Post by radovic on Apr 16, 2008 15:19:44 GMT -5
You claimed we were not allied in 1918. Yes we were.
Your countrymen were on the Chetnik and Partisan side. Not with the collaborators. Just like the Serb population was on the Chetnik and Partisan side and not with Nedic's collaborators.
The Chetniks and Partisans were on the "pro-Yugoslav" side. Montenegrins were on that side and not on the collaboarionist side you support.
The collaborators had little support in Montenegro. That's why Drljevic himself was exiled from occupied Montenegro because the population did not support the occupiers.
The people didn't choose a thing. Was there any referendum on it. Did any democratically elected assembly vote for it.
And the Montenegrins repaid them by rebelling against the occup[iers and their puppets and joining Chetniks and Partizans.
That is why more Montenegrins thought in the wars then did Serbs from Serbia. That is why they voted for union in 1991. That is why they voted for the DPS in such large numebers in 1992 and 1996 when it was an openly pro-Serb party. Stop being delususional, the Montenegrin public became split into pro- and anti-Serb sides only in the late 90s.
I've never claimed that they are Serb and I've never claimed that Seselj is my idol. So clearly you are making an accusation not based on fact.
Any conclusive proof. I don't think Djindjic ever stated his opinion on the MOC. Furthermore, Djindjic's connections to Montenegrin polticians with anti-Serb or pro-independence politics stem from his believe that defeating Milosevic required the participation of both Serb & Montenegrin parties.
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