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Post by vanilo on May 20, 2008 9:56:31 GMT -5
Desire .
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Post by jerryspringer on May 20, 2008 10:05:09 GMT -5
You posted a quote from the Koran where it said that women should employ modesty. Since different cultures have a different view of what modesty is, women express their modesty in different matters: some more conservative than others. Therefore, I say that Islam encourages local culture when it asks women to employ modesty. Besides, Islam was founded on a local culture.
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Post by julius on May 20, 2008 10:18:43 GMT -5
Vanilo thank u for ur answer. But I think too that generally muslim women are a little bit confused. U are saying that dont practice some rules of islam but u are ok with them and defend those rules too. I dont get it. Its not logical.
About the covering, our alb women didnt have any problem of this kind before 1990. Now a small portion of them has started wearing veils in schools. We didnt have this "local culture" Where did we get it?
Who said this? "Islam, this theology of an immoral Arab, is a dead thing. Possibly it might have suited tribes of nomads in the desert. It was no good for a modern progressive State."
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on May 20, 2008 11:07:06 GMT -5
Ju po qani halling e kaloresit qe i varen kembet. Sa te mira jane ato hurmat e arabise mer Jahu. Jahu=Jesus=Johu Jahudi=is pure albanian word Jahu+di=Jews People that have knowlege and related to Jesus. (Joshua) Di=Know
Arabs are very rich people!
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Post by jerryspringer on May 20, 2008 11:08:23 GMT -5
Are you sure? Because people have posted old photos of Albania, where all women were showing covering their hair. I believe the photos dates from the early 20th century.
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on May 20, 2008 11:29:25 GMT -5
Hey Sister Queen Anita, Hittites are Albanian nga Hani Hotit from Scutari (Shkodra) north west Albania !
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Post by julius on May 20, 2008 12:34:29 GMT -5
Are you sure? Because people have posted old photos of Albania, where all women were showing covering their hair. I believe the photos dates from the early 20th century. I'm d@mn sure. we had free living women fighters as no other nation in the region. A simple veil is another thing, and a muslim covering veil another. In the first case, if u decide to unveil nothing happens to u. The women we are talking today (covering themselves) are ALL of them muslim believers. It cant be a coincidence.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on May 20, 2008 17:22:56 GMT -5
You posted a quote from the Koran where it said that women should employ modesty. Since different cultures have a different view of what modesty is, women express their modesty in different matters: some more conservative than others. Therefore, I say that Islam encourages local culture when it asks women to employ modesty. Besides, Islam was founded on a local culture. Islam wasn't founded on local culture. Islam is very clear to those who wish to understand it. others who are adamant in giving it a bad name.. I don't have anything more to say
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Post by Red Brigade on May 20, 2008 17:34:55 GMT -5
The main mistake that people make are: Mixing up Islam with the local cultures. Duh. Islam is the result of local cultures you little pink thing.
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Post by pagane on May 21, 2008 7:37:40 GMT -5
I wouldn't be so certain, at least judging by your disputes with Yahac, and both of you seem to be pretty interested in Koran.
Anittas, I think you can still find old women who wear something like veil, especially in the more remoted areas throughout the Balkan. It is just some sort of tradition and has nothing to do with religion.
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Post by yahadj on May 21, 2008 8:46:41 GMT -5
The requirement for covering of women comes from those two verses of Qur'an:
“ And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings (khimars) over their bosoms (jaybs), and not display their ornaments except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! Turn ye all together Towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss. (Qur'an 24:31)
“ Those who harass believing men and believing women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) A calumny and a grievous sin. O Prophet! Enjoin your wives, your daughters, and the wives of true believers that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad) That is most convenient, that they may be distinguished and not be harassed.
And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (Qur'an 33:58-59)"
There was always covering in Islam. But the way of it varried throughout the world. Not only Muslims but Non-Muslims used to cover themselves more in the past than nowdays.
Eventhough the details of it weren't revealed in Qur'an "hijab" - "covering" is a requirement for women whenever they they go outside or have to face strangers. Whether they will take it seriously or not is their own bussiness. Since they will be accountable for that they can take their own risks. It is a part of the test for them. And also it is not mentioned in detail as a clear cut uniform. The woman herself should find her own way of covering which would make her look modest. In order to know how successful is she, she can simply judge from the feedback she gets from the strangers around. Women are very good in feeling the sensation they create. If she is not bothered and she feels she is not attracting attention (sex appeal) then probably she is OK.
I am not sure about todays political movement of "hijab". I am not sure how good "hijab" as a tool of political abuse goes along with the principle of modesty. But I sure that people shouldn't be forced either wear or not to wear "hijab". Let the women decide and respect their decision.
At the end Allah will judge who was sincere or who was faking in the obedience to Allah's rules... Allah knows the best!
PEACE
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Post by pagane on May 21, 2008 10:19:07 GMT -5
Yahac, these women are not Muslim and they don't wear this for any religious BS but for practical reasons, like avoiding hairs in the meals when cooking. I don't know what is the exact meaning of 'ornaments' but the way I interpret this, it sounds perverted, with all these relatives... When the temerature around is about 50 C, it is not very wise to walk uncovered. Amen to that
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Post by yahadj on May 22, 2008 2:00:04 GMT -5
I don't even have to consider any practical reasons for covering. The word of God Almighty is above any assumptions or interpretations.
Let the women decide what are their ornaments and how to deal with them. If they want to be modest they can. It is their bussiness. After all, it will be them who will be held accountable for their deeds. Not anybody else. We can only remind the message of Allah. We cannot and shouldn't force. That is all...
PEACE
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Mimi
Amicus
Kosovo IS Albania!
Posts: 463
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Post by Mimi on May 22, 2008 12:56:07 GMT -5
oh please its true that before it was all about covering up not only muslims but non muslims as well as it wasnt a secure system before now men are more aware that you can only look and not touch ;D
are you crazy to cover up and miss all the goddies in life?? what if i want attention?, women need to feel attractive and sexy time to time, is that a crime? why should we worry what goes on in mens head? this totally puts a women down as she should not enjoy her life to the fullest and not let her have a free mind. men can look who ever they want but womens life is so limited and in control they even scare them into thinking that if they are not cover up they will be burn in hell. the world developes and get more modern as the time goes by and are thinking changes as well we move forward it cant stay in the past forever, time changes you know. so i say burn the headscarfs as it belongs in the past.
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Post by jerryspringer on May 22, 2008 14:39:58 GMT -5
As Yahac said: cover yourself to modesty, or burn in Hell.
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Post by terroreign on May 22, 2008 15:09:04 GMT -5
yea mimi you're right, women should have the right to feel sexy time to time, but at who's expense? Men don't like teases!! This drives many to insanity!
Therefore, cover up if you dont wanna put out! ;D
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Post by yahadj on May 23, 2008 1:18:27 GMT -5
Mimi there is no problme at all. It is your choice. You may verily prefer the "goodies" of this temporary life over the goodies of the eternal life. As long as you are making conscious choices and you understand you will be accountable for your choices, there is totally no problem.
But I still don't understand how reducing yourself into a level of simple sexual object makes you feel good and happy... But you know, people are weird... Different choices, different people...
PEACE
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Post by jerryspringer on May 23, 2008 23:15:52 GMT -5
We'll rather go to Hell than be in Heaven with devils like you.
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Post by terroreign on May 24, 2008 3:09:14 GMT -5
^What's your problem dude, you jump down Yahac's throat like its a water slide
Btw speak for yourself, not all of us are delusional atheists with major complexes
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on May 24, 2008 3:28:25 GMT -5
i have sex with female pristests and female imames lmao
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