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Post by albanesehoney on Nov 25, 2007 21:19:33 GMT -5
Give it a break, everytime Serbs tried to commit ethnic cleansing of any group, they ended up losing more of its own people and land mass. That's what you get when you follow orders of Serbian killers and madmen.
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Nov 26, 2007 6:17:50 GMT -5
This is what the New World Disorder is bringing when you try and by past international laws. This could almost bring down the UN as an organization.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 26, 2007 6:31:54 GMT -5
^ Western europe should be called the UN, whats the purpose of this authority when they are heavily influenced by them. We need once again an opposing power of the west that will keep everything more in line with this international rules.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Nov 26, 2007 11:29:30 GMT -5
In the mid-1980s, the Serbian Academy of Science commissioned a survey of 500 households comprised by Kosovar Serbs who left Kosova. Needless to say, this was a biased survey aimed to demonize the Albanians and report on the 'atrocities' going on there.
60 per cent of the questioned stated that the reason for their departure followed the deterioration of the relations between Albanians and Serbs after Rankovic's dismissal and housearrest, i.e. they meant there was a political dimension to this whole thing (the others cited other reasons, such as economy). Of these, 41 per cent mentioned 'indirect pressure' from the Albanians as a reason for them leaving. 21 per cent answered that they had left due to 'direct pressure', such as verbal abuse (8,5 per cent), material damage (7,5 per cent) and personal injury (5 per cent). (Source: Petrovic & Blagojevic, 'Migration' p.110, 179)
This differs quite alot from official figures, which state that of the 14,921 Kosovar Serbs who left between the years 1983-87, 95 per cent stated that economic or/and family reasons was what triggered their departure. (Source: Islami, 'Demografski problemi' p.62-63)
In either case, even if we use the figures presented by the Serbian Academy of Science, what we witness here isn't "systematic cleansing", for which resources are needed (army, police). Because in the Academy's figures, 40 per cent do cite economic and personal reasons for leaving Kosova. And those 41 per cent who mentioned 'indirect pressure' is just BS: that cannot possible qualify as ethnic cleansing, which is the forced migration of a specific element of the population. Neither would I class verbal abuse as 'ethnic cleansing'. Abd material damage as well as personal injuries seem just to vague; probably perpetrated by individuals and cannot possible be seen as something 'systematic'.
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Post by vinjak on Nov 26, 2007 16:47:23 GMT -5
Tito died May 4, 1980. Among other de-stabilizing effects, Albanians felt that they had lost their new guardian. Less than a year later and not necessarily related to Tito's death, Albanian riots shook Kosovo. The riots were ignited by student grievance at a grossly overcrowded Pristina University, and rapidly spread throughout Kosovo. At this time approximately 28% of the people in Kosovo were students and the education they were getting was inferior because of the overcrowding and because of under-qualified and unqualified faculty. This was a matchbox that it took only a spark to ignite. Serbian and Montenegrin citizens were beaten, their homes burned and their shops looted. Public opinion throughout Serbia turned sharply against the educational system in Kosovo In particular Pristina University became widely believed to be a hotbed of Albanian nationalism. In response, Serbian, Montenegrin and Macedonian nationalisms were all given great impetus
By the middle 1980's there was an increasing amount of Serb migration out of Kosovo, in respose to widespread intimidation, pressure and some violence on the part of extremist Albanians who made no bones about desiring an "ethnically clean" Kosovo.
The first organized protest on the part of Serbian Kosovars took place in 1986. Interestingly, also about this time the strongest statement on behalf of the Serbs in Kosovo was made by a group of Serbian intellectuals under the auspices of the Serbian Academy of Arts and Sciences. Long before Milosevic came to power, this memorandum from this prestigious body called for a revocation of Kosovo autonomy and for a de-Albanianization of Kosovo.
However, by this time a strong underground movement for the "National Liberation of Kosovo" had developed along with other underground Albanian groups. Serbs in Kosovo felt, and indeed were threatened. In February 1987 the Serbian government proposed to take away Kosovo's autonomy, even though they did not have the authority to do so since it was under Federal not Serbian authority. From 1974 until the late 1980's Albanians in Kosovo undoubtably had enjoyed the most administrative and cultural autonomy in their history whether under Serbian, Albanian or indeed Ottoman rule, but for the Kosovars that favored independence, it wasn't enough. Some wanted status as a republic within Yugoslavia, while others favored unification with Albania along with Albanians from Macedonia and Montenegro in a "Greater Albania"
Milosevic first visited Kosovo in April 1987. Until this time he had said little about Kosovo. At a political rally of Serbs, he was emotionally greeted and literally mobbed by crowds of Serbs demanding action against the Albanians for condoning attacks on Serbs and Montenegrins.
The year 1990 began with civil disturbances by tens of thousands of Albanian protesters swelled by workers emptying out of the factories. Violence resulted which was countered with equal or greater violence by security forces. The not surprising result was even more violence, with thirty- one deaths and hundreds injured before the disturbances were quelled and the streets cleared. In March 1990 the Serbian Parliament adopted the "Program for Achieving Peace, Freedom and Equality in Kosovo". It's goal was the peaceful co-existence of all ethnic groups in Kosovo, but it also identified Albanian separatists as the main threat to this goal. Because of all the many past events combined with Albanian desires for independence Albanians could not and did not accept the authority and legitimacy of this program.
In July 1990 the Serbian government deprived the illegal Kosovo Parliament from meeting. In response Albanian parliamentarians assembled on the steps of the Parliament building and proclaimed the Sovereign Republic of Kosova. Within the Yugoslav Federation. Serbia then officially dissolved Kosovo's government and took executive control. The complete removal of Kosovo's autonomy was completed in September when a change in the Serbian constitution redefined Kosovo as a region in Serbia, with administrative and executive control now in the hands of the Serbian National Assembly. The emergency measures imposed by Serbia resulted in a de-Albanianization of cultural and educational institutions in kosovo with a consequent re- Serbianization occurring. In response Albanian Kosovars adopted a constitution for their Republic of Kosova.
In the summer of 1992 Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo were living in a virtual state of apartheid, essentially completely separated from each other. In the Yugoslav elections of December 1992 Albanian leadership in Kosovo advised Albanians not to vote and in large numbers they did not. Milosevic's Socialist Party won the election with 47 seats but the strongly nationalist Radical party won 33 seats putting additional pressure on Milosevic to defend Serbian interests in Kosovo and Serbian nationalism in general.
It is likely that Milosevic could have been defeated if the Albanians in Kosovo had in fact voted. With the collapse of communism in Albania, important voices in that country started to talk more about the union of Kosovo with Albania. In the meantime, Albanian Kosovars emphasized what they believed was their ancestral rights to Kosovo by broadcasting and using Illyrian names. On their part, Serbs changed street signs to recognize the importance of Serbian history and culture in Kosovo
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Nov 26, 2007 17:03:12 GMT -5
In the mid-1980s, the Serbian Academy of Science commissioned a survey of 500 households comprised by Kosovar Serbs who left Kosova. Needless to say, this was a biased survey aimed to demonize the Albanians and report on the 'atrocities' going on there. 60 per cent of the questioned stated that the reason for their departure followed the deterioration of the relations between Albanians and Serbs after Rankovic's dismissal and housearrest, i.e. they meant there was a political dimension to this whole thing (the others cited other reasons, such as economy). Of these, 41 per cent mentioned 'indirect pressure' from the Albanians as a reason for them leaving. 21 per cent answered that they had left due to 'direct pressure', such as verbal abuse (8,5 per cent), material damage (7,5 per cent) and personal injury (5 per cent). (Source: Petrovic & Blagojevic, 'Migration' p.110, 179) This differs quite alot from official figures, which state that of the 14,921 Kosovar Serbs who left between the years 1983-87, 95 per cent stated that economic or/and family reasons was what triggered their departure. (Source: Islami, 'Demografski problemi' p.62-63) In either case, even if we use the figures presented by the Serbian Academy of Science, what we witness here isn't "systematic cleansing", for which resources are needed (army, police). Because in the Academy's figures, 40 per cent do cite economic and personal reasons for leaving Kosova. And those 41 per cent who mentioned 'indirect pressure' is just BS: that cannot possible qualify as ethnic cleansing, which is the forced migration of a specific element of the population. Neither would I class verbal abuse as 'ethnic cleansing'. Abd material damage as well as personal injuries seem just to vague; probably perpetrated by individuals and cannot possible be seen as something 'systematic'. Your interpretations cannot be beleived. You constantly omit other facts to suit your argument. You have been caught out lying too many times for your posts to be taken seriously. Your above post is no exception.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Nov 26, 2007 18:45:46 GMT -5
Mention one time you've caught me "lying" and "discredited" me to such a point where I've been branded as "unserious" !
Instead of vomiting BS endlessly, you might actually want to try and make an argument for a change. Attack the argument and my 'interpretation' of the survey, not me.
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Nov 26, 2007 18:52:31 GMT -5
Mention one time you've caught me "lying" and "discredited" me to such a point where I've been branded as "unserious" ! Instead of vomiting BS endlessly, you might actually want to try and make an argument for a change. Attack the argument and my 'interpretation' of the survey, not me. The times are to numerous and the fact that you continually omit facts to suit your argument is breathtaking.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Nov 26, 2007 19:09:21 GMT -5
Your inability to give one example says it all. Thanks Fender for making my case.
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Fender
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Post by Fender on Nov 26, 2007 20:36:24 GMT -5
Your inability to give one example says it all. Thanks Fender for making my case. Your case has not been made. I just do not wish to take up unecessary memory by cutting and pasting from the old boards. By the way, many on here agree with my sentiment, this is something you cannot eradicate, no matter howq much BS you spin. Case in point, you choose not to acknowledge that it was Austria that gave the Albanians the real nationalistic push which paved the way for their first recognition of a state.
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Post by captainalbania on Aug 27, 2008 21:40:34 GMT -5
Actually fender he asked you to name one thing and you couldn't do it cause it doesn't exist. Dijedon has been here longer than you and doesn't pull shit out of his ass. He even cited his work.
What have you contributed to the forum? Nothing. You sucked Serbian cock and got made a mod overnight.
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