tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Aug 30, 2008 7:00:24 GMT -5
or do they all speak the gheg dialect of albanian,....
same questions goes for albanians of presevo/medveda/bujanovac & macedonia
just curious to know,... thanks
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Post by shkodrani on Aug 30, 2008 8:08:50 GMT -5
no
presheva is geg too
i think maceodnia is 80% gheg 20% tosk (i might be a little off)
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Aug 30, 2008 8:41:17 GMT -5
ah, ok cool. so which part on this map of macedonia would albanian tosk speakers be living,... and is it true that all gheg speakers are originally catholic, and all tosk speakers are originally orthodox?... or is this not necessarily the case?.....
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Post by shkodrani on Aug 30, 2008 9:06:59 GMT -5
south macedonia, the areas that border tosk parts of albania, like Ohër and Manastir , Struga too speaks tosk mixed with gheg dibran dialect
but many tosks have moved to north-western macodonia and assimilated into ghegs you can see this in the last names for example a Shkupjan with the last name Haxhiu would be of Tosk origin, if he was a gehg his last name whould be Haxhia or Haxhija
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Aug 30, 2008 9:49:45 GMT -5
ah, ok cool. so which part on this map of macedonia would albanian tosk speakers be living,... and is it true that all gheg speakers are originally catholic, and all tosk speakers are originally orthodox?... or is this not necessarily the case?..... this map is wrong because Central Macedonia is very mixed 35% Albanians, 40% Macedonians and 15% are others
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Aug 30, 2008 9:52:40 GMT -5
south macedonia, the areas that border tosk parts of albania, like Ohër and Manastir , Struga too speaks tosk mixed with gheg dibran dialect but many tosks have moved to north-western macodonia and assimilated into ghegs you can see this in the last names for example a Shkupjan with the last name Haxhiu would be of Tosk origin, if he was a gehg his last name whould be Haxhia or Haxhija haxhiu is present also among Gegs...in Kosova have alot Haxhiu, Salihu, Aliu ect (with suffix U) i never heard surname haxhia among albs of Kosova or Macedonia.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Aug 30, 2008 9:58:14 GMT -5
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Post by shkodrani on Aug 30, 2008 10:21:54 GMT -5
haxhiu is present also among Gegs...in Kosova have alot Haxhiu, Salihu, Aliu ect (with suffix U) i never heard surname haxhia among albs of Kosova or Macedonia. can't be that would go against the rules of gheg where you from ? do you say : Alia asht baba jem or: Aliu është babai im ? -iu ending is tosk yes, theyre may be some exeptions in the transitional area but in 90%+ of cases its true
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Aug 30, 2008 11:52:15 GMT -5
Shkodran dont confuze surname with gramatic In Kosova you can't find surname Alia, Saliha, Jerlia, Haxhia all surname are with suffix u (Aliu, Salihu ect) Aliaj Salihaj Limaj ect is caracherstic of Albanian Malisors (Tropoja area, Gjakova and montenegro) Alia asht baba jem or: Aliu është babai im ? -iu ending is tosk - Kur dikush te pyet, i kujna je ( i kujt je) Ti nuk mundesh me thene jam i Alia? por Alise (tani Alise smund te behen mbiemrat prandaj e kan marr trajten e u-se ose - aj)...per ate ti e ngatrron emrin me mbiemrin qe kane dallim te madh Shiko edhe ne Kosove, tromponimet jane me mbarese u p.sh Kacaniku, Karadaku, Pashtriku etj tani nvaret sipas gramatikes. edhe ne Juge te Shqiperise ke shume tromponime e mbiemra me A per shkak gramatikes qe nuk pershtaten fjalet. p.sh e ke Ali pashe Tepelena (si mbiemer ashtu edhe etnom)...e nuk mundesh me thene Tepelenu...pastaj ke Dhima, Dana, Koka e shume mbiemra qe jane tipike te jugut. Sikur veri qe gjene shume mbiemra me A: Leka, Prenga, Hana, Kola, Kraja, Sula etj. dhe tash nuk mundesh me pershtat me U (Leku, Prengu, Hanu, Kraju, Sulu) sepse humb kuptimi i fjales.
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Post by shkodrani on Aug 30, 2008 12:33:58 GMT -5
jo nuk po kupton ku du me dal, mbiemni duhet te jete ne form te shtjellun (definate) duhet te mbaroj me nje -i -u -a ose -aj
po sdi qe forme -iu perdoret ne gegnisht
Geg: Shkova te Haxhija
Bekimi a djali i Haxhisë, ka me mar emnin Bekim Haxhija.
When you say in everyday language "Shkova te Haxhija" as oposed to "Shkova te Haxhiu"(wich is the tosk way of saying it) why would the surname end in the tosk form then... it just seems very ilogical
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Aug 30, 2008 13:27:31 GMT -5
and is it true that all gheg speakers are originally catholic, and all tosk speakers are originally orthodox?... or is this not necessarily the case?..... This very well could be true. The Catholic-Orhtodox divide in Albania occurs pretty much along the same line as the Geg-Tosk divide, the Shkumbini river in central Albania. I know that there has been a small pocket of Orthodox in Shkoder who speak Geg. If one could accept the fact that over time you've had some Montenegrin or Serbs who converted to Islam and over time assumed an Albanian identity that means that they speak geg today and were at one time Orthodox. In the South there have been recurrent migrations from the North, especially the Mirdita region (a Catholic stronghold) so that means that some of those Tosk speakers were at one time Catholics. That is evident from a lot of Catholic last names in the Laberia region.
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Aug 30, 2008 16:03:40 GMT -5
Actually in Manastir they speak geg in Prespa they speak Tosk.
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Post by meltdown711 on Aug 30, 2008 16:24:59 GMT -5
Its one of the biggest misconceptions that Ghegs were Catholics and Tosks Orthodox. In fact it was neither one really. Albanians were not officially a part of any church and did not have one of their own. Many of them switched according to the necessity of the times. Scanderbeg came from a family that was Orthodox Gheg family but eventually aligned with a more Catholic church. By the 15th century, Durres and Shkoder were clearly dominated by Venetian and probably a strong mix of Catholic-Orthodox, outside it would probably have been very ambiguous,
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Aug 31, 2008 3:06:06 GMT -5
Its one of the biggest misconceptions that Ghegs were Catholics and Tosks Orthodox. In fact it was neither one really. Albanians were not officially a part of any church and did not have one of their own. Many of them switched according to the necessity of the times. Scanderbeg came from a family that was Orthodox Gheg family but eventually aligned with a more Catholic church. By the 15th century, Durres and Shkoder were clearly dominated by Venetian and probably a strong mix of Catholic-Orthodox, outside it would probably have been very ambiguous, That could very well be true since all of our neighbors are Orthodox. I doubt there was a Catholic Albanian island in the midst of an Orthodox sea in the North.
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Post by shkodrani on Aug 31, 2008 6:24:15 GMT -5
That could very well be true since all of our neighbors are Orthodox. I doubt there was a Catholic Albanian island in the midst of an Orthodox sea in the North. What is the "Orthodox see" you speak of until very recently theyre were albanians up to kotorr we bordered croatians to the north not serbs
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SuperAlbanian
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Post by SuperAlbanian on Aug 31, 2008 20:12:01 GMT -5
I can speak Tosk Dialect! (High pitched voice) " O mor!? Pirdhu mor!! !"
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Sept 1, 2008 0:43:43 GMT -5
What is the "Orthodox see" you speak of until very recently theyre were albanians up to kotorr we bordered croatians to the north not serbs Whatever floats your boat buddy.
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Post by terroreign on Sept 1, 2008 3:45:43 GMT -5
Albanians never existed in Kotor, and Montenegro was originally Catholic, thus it makes sense that the albanian-speakers of montenegro stayed catholic.
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tyson
Amicus
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Post by tyson on Sept 3, 2008 20:12:09 GMT -5
northern albania was infuenced by the latin-rite church, and southern albania infuenced by the greek-rite church. albania's northern neighbor, montenegro in the times of duklja was of the latin-rite church.
anyways, so do gheg speakers exist south of the drac river?
its interesting to note, that croatian historians write that historical red croatia went right down to the drac river. now this is just a theory,..... since croats accepted christianity of the latin-rite as a whole not long after they came to the dinaric region, then maybe albanians north of the drac river accepted christianity of the latin-rite together with their croat neighbors.
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Post by fannoli on Sept 3, 2008 23:48:00 GMT -5
anyways, so do gheg speakers exist south of the drac river? Not today. The south is almost exclusively Tosk speaking. During 15th century there have been movements from the north to the south. Actually even today there is some movements from the north to the south. But its true that the North has been influenced by Latin. Tyson, Back in the commie days a literary uniform Albanian language was created for everybody to adopt mostly based on Tosk dialect. Today the Gheg & Tosk language divide is not that great. Most people speak literary Albanian especially those who are educated in schools and influenced by media.
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