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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 27, 2008 22:47:29 GMT -5
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Post by Kastorianos on Dec 28, 2008 6:36:40 GMT -5
Nothing special. They dont look that Greek to me. At least not on these pictures, but Im almost sure you hide some others.....for example that of your granny.
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 28, 2008 14:38:26 GMT -5
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Post by Kastorianos on Dec 28, 2008 14:44:08 GMT -5
Pappas is very Greek, Berberi(s??) doesnt tell me anything...and Tzatzos sounds rather vlach I havent seen it among Greeks yet, tzatzo means old woman doesnt it...in vlach...
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 28, 2008 14:45:55 GMT -5
Berberi is a common Albanian surname, it means barber...
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 28, 2008 14:47:33 GMT -5
Pappas is very Greek, Berberi(s??) doesnt tell me anything...and Tzatzos sounds rather vlach I havent seen it among Greeks yet, tzatzo means old woman doesnt it...in vlach... Xhaxhi means uncle or mister in Albanian, I thought it had Turkish roots a while back but apparently it doesnt. It might be a shared Vlach Albanian... Xhaxho sounds like a vocative version of Xhaxhi (O Xhaxho)
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Post by Kastorianos on Dec 28, 2008 14:54:14 GMT -5
Dont you have pics of your grannies father? I would like to see the person that got this name Pappas.
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 28, 2008 14:56:23 GMT -5
I have to scan them, but they are hard to get to. She has the surname Pappa, and looks rather Greek to me...
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Post by Kastorianos on Dec 28, 2008 15:03:31 GMT -5
she is the only one among the first pictures that does indeed look typical Greek. And you are related to her... ;D
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 28, 2008 15:07:34 GMT -5
Of all the Nartiot clans, I had to be a descendant of Pappa. Hell I wouldnt have minded Seva, that sounds pretty cool... :-P
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Post by Kastorianos on Dec 28, 2008 15:09:41 GMT -5
Are ou sure that all clans are greek?
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 28, 2008 15:12:04 GMT -5
I dont think all perhaps. Narta has always been a rather mixed place. My aunt would tell me that the Greek they spoke was heavily mixed with Albanian, sometimes it would sound like half and half. I would suppose then that it wasnt pure.
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Post by Kastorianos on Dec 28, 2008 15:24:25 GMT -5
So just like with my mothers region...just vice versa. You know I visited two years ago my grandparents tomb...graveyards are perfect ifyou want to know what the people of your village look like...+ you have always the names.
So I went around and looked for people with whom I must have blood relation...and I must say many villagers looked Greek...just when I read my mothers name...the people were always dinarics..andopposite type of Greeks...I sweared silently then...haha... ;D
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 28, 2008 19:28:58 GMT -5
PS: Narta was originally Arta. However a story goes that the people didnt speak proper Greek so when they say going to Narta they would say "stin ne Arte". The ne was redundant and Albanian, it eventually merged with Arta, producing Narta/e...
i dunno what stin means but Im guessing its from eis (+acc.) tnv...
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Post by Kastorianos on Dec 29, 2008 4:35:35 GMT -5
yes "stin" derives from "eis tin", while the "tin" part is the accussative fem. form. The modern Greek just puts it together..."ston" is "eis ton" and means the same it just refers to the masc. and sto (eis to) to the neutrum.
stin means "in" in English and "ne" in albanian. So if you say "stin ne arte" its tautologous. Perhaps it was only "ne Arte" and then it was made Narta some day...
Narta lies very northern, it is no wonder the people didnt speak proper Greek, it was far away from the centre of Greek culture and language. I mean where are the Greeks of Dirrachion? Im pretty sure some people of todays Durres must be descendants of those Greeks that were living there once.
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 29, 2008 5:16:37 GMT -5
Durres shifted in populations heavily. By the time of the major earthquake in the early 13th century it had an Italian and a Slavic quarter. By the beginning of the 13th century the Greeks were losing their position since the city started to leave Byzantine hands. The earthquake destroyed much of the time and Albanians began moving in from around the 11th-14th century. Eventually displacing all other groups.
Its not much of a chance that the Greek imprint on that city is all that high... too many breaks and shifts.
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 29, 2008 18:07:24 GMT -5
Clans of Narta.
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 29, 2008 18:12:15 GMT -5
Actually, my first mistake in my Greek and Latin class was to mistake eis/ad + acc. by saying in... in both it was marked wrong and was corrected by adding to --> into since accusative implies movement into something while the dative implies a stationary idea (in) and genitive expresses movement out (ex). :-P
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 29, 2008 19:30:36 GMT -5
Clans of Narta. Are the Konomis the smart ones? ;D Actually, my first mistake in my Greek and Latin class was to mistake eis/ad + acc. by saying in... in both it was marked wrong and was corrected by adding to --> into since accusative implies movement into something while the dative implies a stationary idea (in) and genitive expresses movement out (ex). :-P One day the greek blood inside you will help you to understand the use of eis...
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 29, 2008 20:15:09 GMT -5
I wouldnt have been able to read the whole of the Apologia without knowing that basic rule.
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