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Post by bob1389 on Sept 13, 2008 11:45:36 GMT -5
Every year I see it happen.
People gather in groups, rermember the fallen ones and what not.
But it wasn't a win. It was a loss.
Why do Bosnian Muslims celebrate losses?
Serious responses only thanx.
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Post by bob1389 on Sept 13, 2008 11:49:05 GMT -5
I'm going to ask the Greek forum also why they celebrate the Spartans, I mean, they LOST. Why on earth celebrate it?
The concept defies all logic.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 13, 2008 12:01:49 GMT -5
Umm, are you being funny or serious? How in the holy hell did you get the impression someone is CELEBRATING a massacre of their own. The image of crying old women and mothers over caskets gives you the impression of CELEBRATION? Lol They are MOURNING it, and remembering the fallen just like people do the Holocaust, 9/11 and like Serbs do their own victims from that very same area that they say Naser Oric killed. So what exactly is confusing there? Look at the wild and crazy celebration! ![](http://www.srpska-mreza.com/Bosnia/Srebrenica/photo/Clinton-bows-03-sm.jpg) ![](http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/picture_gallery/05/europe_srebrenica_memorial/img/4.jpg) ![](http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2008-w27/img.260790_t.jpg) ![](http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2008-w29/img.272775_t.jpg)
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Sept 13, 2008 12:45:30 GMT -5
Its a memorial, same thing with serbs and Jasenovac
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Post by zgembo on Sept 13, 2008 13:57:18 GMT -5
Muslims think we celebrate the Battle of Kosovo, when in fact its a day of mourning for us too.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 13, 2008 14:33:43 GMT -5
That's complete crap. How can a massacre/genocide be the same as a famous battle? In any way? D-Day and the Holocaust aren't the same thing. And yes you do mourn Battle of Kosovo, but in fact you do celebrate it in part too. I can't count how many times I've heard "heroes of battle of kosovo, fought turks, only ones, true serb warriors blah blah blah". You DEFINETLY glorify what is seen by most as an unimportant and mediocre battle. This has been noticed not jus tby us but by Croats and Albanians too, we've all pointed it out. Especialy since you completly ignore you weren't the only ones on the battlefield there, there was soldiers from all over. Including Serbs fighting on the Ottoman side. Murad's army may have numbered 27,000-40,000. If we take the estimate of 40,000, it probably included 2,000-5,000 Janissaries, 2,500 of Murad's cavalry guard, 6,000 sipahis, 20,000 azaps and akincis and 8,000 of his vassals. Lazar's army might have been 12,000-30,000. If we take the estimate of 25,000, some 15,000 were under Lazar's command, with 5,000 under Serbian nobleman from Kosovo Vuk Brankovic, and as many under Serbian vojvoda from Bosnia Vlatko . Of these, several thousand were cavalry, but perhaps only a few hundred were clad in full plate armour.
Both armies included some foreign troops: for example, the Serbian force included a small number of troops from the Croatian ban Ivan Paližna, probably as part of the Bosnian contingent, while the Turkish army was helped by the Serbian noble Konstantin Dejanovic. This has led some analysts to describe the armies as coalitions.I mean I GET why you do it, I get the idea of sacrafice and all that, but it's interesting nobody else has done it to this extent where as you hear the "battle of kosovo" mentioned in every f**kin thing almost that invovles serbs today. Most Balkan historians know that battle is not even that important and that the Battle of Martisa is much more imporatant as far as the Ottomans trully starting their takeover of the whole Balkan. Which reminds me, this is a good book by some Greek dude. The Balkan Wars: Conquest, Revolution, and Retribution from the Ottoman Era to the Twentieth Century and Beyond ![](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/512Q0JM7Z0L._SL210_.jpg)
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Sept 13, 2008 14:49:28 GMT -5
I think what happend in Jasenovac is far more greater loss of life than it was in Srebrenica... What some assholes did in Srebrenica is pickin dim compared to Jasenovac.... Kapetan u talk about Srebrenica like it was the GREATEST massacre of all times... Get over it it happens all over the world..
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Post by kapetan on Sept 13, 2008 15:03:45 GMT -5
I think what happend in Jasenovac is far more greater loss of life than it was in Srebrenica... What some A*****es did in Srebrenica is pickin dim compared to Jasenovac.... Kapetan u talk about Srebrenica like it was the GREATEST massacre of all times... Get over it it happens all over the world.. Jasenovac sure is a bigger crime that's right. Not just for Serbs but for everyone that died there. The Belgrade Museum of the Holocaust keeps a list of the names of 80,022 victims (mostly from Jasenovac), including: around 52,000 Serbs, 16,000 Jews, 12,000 Croats and nearly 10,000 Roma. But where in this thread and how did I make Srebrenica sound like the greatest tragedy of all time? By stating their mothers are mourning? Show me. As for get over it, I have, nobody of mine died there. We're all ovver it, except the people who's family died there. Getting over it means you can't remeber it's aniversery? Then I say to you "get over" Kosovo and Jasenovac and all that.
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Post by theblackswans on Sept 13, 2008 15:08:25 GMT -5
People gather in groups, rermember the fallen ones and what not.
But it wasn't a win. It was a loss.
Why do Bosnian Muslims celebrate losses?
Serious responses only thanx.[/quote]
Are you serious?
1) Not a celebration 2) commemorate the loss 3) It has only been 13 years and they are still identifying the victims 4) still looking for lost loved ones 5) entire families were lost 6) mladic is still free 7) the injustices still have not been corrected 8) rs still minimizes its responsibility 9) insults the victims by pretending that thousand of cetniks died around Srebrenica as a result of some fabricated genocide committed against them 10) keep the focus on until justice is done
When I was at the memorial Serbian police walked the memorial grounds, ironic considering the same people and symbols were complicit or outright committed the crimes. Even in death they do not rest peacefully.
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Post by zgembo on Sept 13, 2008 17:48:49 GMT -5
That's complete crap. How can a massacre/genocide be the same as a famous battle? In any way? D-Day and the Holocaust aren't the same thing. And yes you do mourn Battle of Kosovo, but in fact you do celebrate it in part too. I can't count how many times I've heard "heroes of battle of kosovo, fought turks, only ones, true serb warriors blah blah blah". You DEFINETLY glorify what is seen by most as an unimportant and mediocre battle. This has been noticed not jus tby us but by Croats and Albanians too, we've all pointed it out. Battle of Kosovo is not just a battle, it is also a tragedy. At the Battle nearly all Serbian nobles died. The Battle signalled the beginning of the end of the Serbian Empire and the beginning of the 500-year long dark hole living under the subjugation of the Turks. That is why we commemorate, we do not celebrate it. There are Muslims who speak of the 'heroes of Srebrenica' too and other bullshit. It's all the same. When you are ignorant and disrespectful towards our history, we might as well be ignorant and disrespectful towards yours.
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Sept 13, 2008 18:04:40 GMT -5
I see only one problem here: Bosniaks not celebrating July 18 1831 The Third Battle of Kosovo.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 13, 2008 18:11:38 GMT -5
I see only one problem here: Bosniaks not celebrating July 18 1831 The Third Battle of Kosovo. Ain't that the truth. And what's more WE WON that (with the help of some Albanians) But seriosly, Gradascevic deserves alot more respect in terms of recognition. he is our national hero and who knows what history would've been like if he wasnt betrayed. if i hit the lotto im putting statues of him all over!! That's complete crap. How can a massacre/genocide be the same as a famous battle? In any way? D-Day and the Holocaust aren't the same thing. And yes you do mourn Battle of Kosovo, but in fact you do celebrate it in part too. I can't count how many times I've heard "heroes of battle of kosovo, fought turks, only ones, true serb warriors blah blah blah". You DEFINETLY glorify what is seen by most as an unimportant and mediocre battle. This has been noticed not jus tby us but by Croats and Albanians too, we've all pointed it out. Battle of Kosovo is not just a battle, it is also a tragedy. At the Battle nearly all Serbian nobles died. The Battle signalled the beginning of the end of the Serbian Empire and the beginning of the 500-year long dark hole living under the subjugation of the Turks. That is why we commemorate, we do not celebrate it. There are Muslims who speak of the 'heroes of Srebrenica' too and other bulls**t. It's all the same. When you are ignorant and disrespectful towards our history, we might as well be ignorant and disrespectful towards yours. Battle of Kosovo is all of ours history, the whole Balkan. As for the rest... fair enough.
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Sept 13, 2008 18:14:35 GMT -5
I was recently in his tower, there is some sort of restaurant there now.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 13, 2008 18:18:18 GMT -5
I was recently in his tower, there is some sort of restaurant there now. You mean Gradacac Kula? ![](http://www.geocities.com/takmmatemfbih41gradacac/kula.jpg) ![](http://www.turizam-bosna.com/images/stories/BiH/gradovi/gradacac/Gradacac.jpg) It's a shame this was bombed in both WW1 and in the 90's. There's just no need for it. But Gradacac never fell!
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Post by bob1389 on Sept 13, 2008 21:02:48 GMT -5
Oh, so you're actually not celebrating Srebrenica, but rather ...commemorating?
Well that makes sense. I'm glad we cleared that up.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 13, 2008 21:43:45 GMT -5
Oh, so you're actually not celebrating Srebrenica, but rather ...commemorating? Well that makes sense. I'm glad we cleared that up. Read the book I posted...very good book and covers that topic as well.....battle of kosovo and it's myth and facts etc... and it's written by a greek so you know he aint no serbophobe ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Sept 14, 2008 0:01:09 GMT -5
Seems like the Croats are the only ones who actually celebrate wins in our region ...
5-og Kolovoza - Dana pobjede, ponosa i slavlja!
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Sept 14, 2008 8:20:05 GMT -5
Nije tacno, kod nas se u BiH stalno slavi Dan pobjede nad fasizmom. ;D
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Post by theblackswans on Sept 14, 2008 10:44:56 GMT -5
Every year I see it happen. People gather in groups, rermember the fallen ones and what not. But it wasn't a win. It was a loss. Why do Bosnian Muslims celebrate losses? Serious responses only thanx. You claim to live in Sarajevo and you don't know the difference between a commemoration and a celebration? Are you serious? I am perplexed if you are just ignorant or stupid. I am not trying to be smart but that is one of the dumbest questions ever posed on this site.
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Post by fazlinho on Sept 14, 2008 10:54:57 GMT -5
Bosanski Cetnik is a guy from australia
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