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Post by adolfmussolini on Oct 20, 2008 13:13:18 GMT -5
I am Orthodox Albanian by birth (by heart I am the anti Christ ) And I do not hate the Bozhnjaks. Don't get me wrong, I still don't want my country associated with yours and I still think all the slavics in YugoSlavia are similars but I do not hate you.....I do not love you either............ Some Albanians speak according to their religion... If that were the case I should love Greeks and Serbs... But I think people are people everywhere, even Serbs so let us not be fools. I come in peace.
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Post by tito on Oct 20, 2008 13:18:56 GMT -5
We understand that, the other guy was just trying to provoke.
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Post by SKORIC on Oct 20, 2008 13:24:36 GMT -5
Well that tells us alot now doesnt it. lol
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Post by fazlinho on Oct 20, 2008 13:31:12 GMT -5
Skoric that's genocide
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Post by kapetan on Oct 20, 2008 14:03:03 GMT -5
Lol the phobia some Albanians have of any slavic language is amazing...
when did that even become a reason to hate. historical problems ..sure....but language?
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Post by tito on Oct 20, 2008 14:28:05 GMT -5
Lol the phobia some Albanians have of any slavic language is amazing... when did that even become a reason to hate. historical problems ..sure....but language? My guess is that it’s all about historical problems.
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Post by kapetan on Oct 20, 2008 14:38:32 GMT -5
which we have none with them
no more then any two random peoples on earth
their enemy is serbians..and greeks.
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Post by tito on Oct 20, 2008 14:50:52 GMT -5
which we have none with them no more then any two random peoples on earth their enemy is serbians..and greeks. Most slavic speaking nations probably supported their enemies the same way they supported our enemies. I’m no expert on Albanian history, but from what I have understood Albania was supposed to face the same tragic faith as Bosnia in 1918, luckily for them America got involved and saved them.
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Post by kapetan on Oct 20, 2008 14:53:01 GMT -5
eh...bosnia wasconstantly at war with serbia..croatia too...montenegro....they never got along much really....then ottomans came they did worktogether thereto try and stop them....then again bosnians wreacked havoc on serbia and croatia as ottomans....ww1 then...ww2....and then today..we're always at odds
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Oct 20, 2008 15:13:58 GMT -5
^ Why is that though? Can you guys explain to me? (Just to see your views)
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Post by kapetan on Oct 20, 2008 15:29:35 GMT -5
^ Why is that though? Can you guys explain to me? (Just to see your views) Why we're always at odds? It's asmuch Serbias and Croatia's fault as it is ours. Takes two to fight. Plus they both always had aspiriations for Bosnian land. Pretty much everything will come back to that: "Bosnia is ours, not yours". Plus Bosnia as a medieval kingdom conquered plenty as well. Not to mention how many times they used the "Bosnians are heretics" excuse to try and call the crusades on us, as a reason to invade. Ban Kulin alone saved us from like two. We're just unlucky lol. Between a rock and a hard place. East and West. Either way we look we see an enemy or hostility. Everyone claims us but everyone hates us Lol.
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 20, 2008 15:29:44 GMT -5
Bosnia could not have constantly been at war with Serbia Croatia and Montenegro, seen as at that time there were no developed nation states among the south Slavs, it was more like noble families and clans who fought against each other, nation states were formed in the 1800s, modern day Serbs have little connection with medieval time Serbs, Bosnians have little connection with medieval Bosnians, and modern days Croats have little connection with medieval croats... If anyone here bothers to look at maps from the whole period, from the time when we came to the Balkans, like 500AD, til the turks take over most of the Balkans, you would see that the Croat/Bosnian and Serbian states of medieval times overlapped...
Bosniacs/Croats/Serbs of today are a product of the Ottoman millet concept. We were to stupid to put abrahamic religions aside and work together out of the fact that we speak the same/almost the same language... The wars between us are a recent phenomena, as are the Serbo-Albanian wars.. and all of them seem rather pointless in my book...
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 20, 2008 15:31:15 GMT -5
^ Why is that though? Can you guys explain to me? (Just to see your views) Why we're always at odds? It's asmuch Serbias and Croatia's fault as it is ours. Takes two to fight. Plus they both always had aspiriations for Bosnian land. Pretty much everything will come back to that: "Bosnia is ours, not yours". Plus Bosnia as a medieval kingdom conquered plenty as well. Not to mention how many times they used the "Bosnians are heretics" excuse to try and call the crusades on us, as a reason to invade. Ban Kulin alone saved us from like two. We're just unlucky lol. Between a rock and a hard place. East and West. Either way we look we see an enemy or hostility. Everyone claims us but everyone hates us Lol. Bosnia worked as a sort of buffer zone between the Vatican and Pravoslavci... It has little to do with the Balkan states..I think...
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Post by kapetan on Oct 20, 2008 15:31:53 GMT -5
Bosnia could not have constantly been at war with Serbia Croatia and Montenegro, seen as at that time there were no developed nation states among the south Slavs, it was more like noble families and clans who fought against each other, nation states were formed in the 1800s, modern day Serbs have little connection with medieval time Serbs, Bosnians have little connection with medieval Bosnians, and modern days Croats have little connection with medieval croats... If anyone here bothers to look at maps from the whole period, from the time when we came to the Balkans, like 500AD, til the turks take over most of the Balkans, you would see that the Croat/Bosnian and Serbian states of medieval times overlapped... Bosniacs/Croats/Serbs of today are a product of the Ottoman millet concept. We were to stupid to put abrahamic religions aside and work together out of the fact that we speak the same/almost the same language... The wars between us are a recent phenomena, as are the Serbo-Albanian wars.. and all of them seem rather pointless in my book... Umm hello? Bosnian Kingdom ruled by Tvrtko one of the most powerful kingdoms at its peak? Ban Kulin? What you are thinking of was before them. And sure there was always inner feuding for the crown and stuff like that, but where you got that Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia didn't have states/powerful kingdoms I don't know.
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 20, 2008 15:35:47 GMT -5
Bosnia could not have constantly been at war with Serbia Croatia and Montenegro, seen as at that time there were no developed nation states among the south Slavs, it was more like noble families and clans who fought against each other, nation states were formed in the 1800s, modern day Serbs have little connection with medieval time Serbs, Bosnians have little connection with medieval Bosnians, and modern days Croats have little connection with medieval croats... If anyone here bothers to look at maps from the whole period, from the time when we came to the Balkans, like 500AD, til the turks take over most of the Balkans, you would see that the Croat/Bosnian and Serbian states of medieval times overlapped... Bosniacs/Croats/Serbs of today are a product of the Ottoman millet concept. We were to stupid to put abrahamic religions aside and work together out of the fact that we speak the same/almost the same language... The wars between us are a recent phenomena, as are the Serbo-Albanian wars.. and all of them seem rather pointless in my book... Umm hello? Bosnian Kingdom ruled by Tvrtko one of the most powerful kingdoms at its peak? Ban Kulin? What you are thinking of was before them. And sure there was always inner feuding for the crown and stuff like that, but where you got that Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia didn't have states/powerful kingdoms I don't know. Did you look at my post, I said there were not nation states, and that the Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian kingdom overlapped each other, just look at the different time periods. I mean, before Tvrtko, you had Tomislav's Croatia to the Drina, and Tvrtko again got loads of land from Serbia, after they lost to the Turks aswell as the Serb crown.. They overlapped each other, look at medival maps from 500AD to 1500AD... they are not states at the same time, and they are not nation states...
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Post by kapetan on Oct 20, 2008 15:39:27 GMT -5
Umm hello? Bosnian Kingdom ruled by Tvrtko one of the most powerful kingdoms at its peak? Ban Kulin? What you are thinking of was before them. And sure there was always inner feuding for the crown and stuff like that, but where you got that Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia didn't have states/powerful kingdoms I don't know. Did you look at my post, I said there were not nation states, and that the Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian kingdom overlapped each other, just look at the different time periods. I mean, before Tvrtko, you had Tomislav's Croatia to the Drina, and Tvrtko again got loads of land from Serbia, after they lost to the Turks aswell as the Serb crown.. They overlapped each other, look at medival maps from 500AD to 1500AD... they are not states at the same time, and they are not nation states... Their shapes changed constantly becuase there was constant warring and conquering lol. Tvrtko conquered a shitload of land yes. you just confirmed what i said. in 1074 it was Croatia with Petar Kremisir...then they lost controlof Bosnia as well. Then Hungary wanted it and fought with Byzanintes constantly. Beginning from the 12th century, Bosnia found itself outside the control of various forces and emerged as an independent state under the rule of local bans. Beginning with the reign of ban Boriæ in 1154, Bosnia was a semi-independent Banate under the sovereignty of the King of Hungary.
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 20, 2008 15:45:21 GMT -5
Did you look at my post, I said there were not nation states, and that the Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian kingdom overlapped each other, just look at the different time periods. I mean, before Tvrtko, you had Tomislav's Croatia to the Drina, and Tvrtko again got loads of land from Serbia, after they lost to the Turks aswell as the Serb crown.. They overlapped each other, look at medival maps from 500AD to 1500AD... they are not states at the same time, and they are not nation states... Their shapes changed constantly becuase there was constant warring and conquering lol. Tvrtko conquered a s**tload of land Demn, look at my post, I said that they overlapped each other and were not around at the same time. Tvrtko got land from the Serbian nobles aswell as the Serbian crown, he did not lead a campaign against Serbia, he got the loyalt of the nobles in parts where the Turks did had not yet taken over.... There were not nation states, you had noble families, and thats about it, why do you think that the Serbai empire "fell apart" so fast after Dushan? He just had a collection of fudal lords and nobles, and when he crknuo, they went away... These states, both the Serbian Croatian and Bosnian ones have been made into "nation states" so that modern day Bosniacs Croats and Serbs can feel that they are somehow super different peoples... That was my point, its a huge myth... nation states were made in the 1700-1800s....
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Post by kapetan on Oct 20, 2008 15:53:10 GMT -5
And I say bulls**t. You're saying medieval kingdoms weren't 'nation states'...no s**t...IT WAS THE 12TH CENTURY LOL who the f**k was?
either way the point was fighting was always present. and from both sides...eyes firmly set on the prize.
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 20, 2008 16:07:54 GMT -5
And I say bulls**t. You're saying medieval kingdoms weren't 'nation states'...no s**t...IT WAS THE 12TH CENTURY LOL who the f**k was? either way the point was fighting was always present. and from both sides...eyes firmly set on the prize. noblemen fought each other, but there was no Bosnian-Croat-Serb conflict in those days.... historymedren.about.com/library/atlas/natmapeurse910.htm
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Post by kapetan on Oct 20, 2008 16:14:56 GMT -5
And I say bulls**t. You're saying medieval kingdoms weren't 'nation states'...no s**t...IT WAS THE 12TH CENTURY LOL who the f**k was? either way the point was fighting was always present. and from both sides...eyes firmly set on the prize. noblemen fought each other, but there was no Bosnian-Croat-Serb conflict in those days.... historymedren.about.com/library/atlas/natmapeurse910.htmyou keep jumping from place to place not getting the point. I never said they all hated eachother. But its FACT Croatia conquered and ruled Bosnian land, Serbia did the same, Bosnia conquered Croatian and Serbian land, Montenegro tried with Herzegovina even later etc..PLUS the people from within fighting. The map iposted above clearly shows Bosnia's expansion. there's always been conflict. you show one map and it means nothing since the maps were different every 100 years lol. precisily cuz of all the changes. on my map Bosnia is huge, on yours it dont exist. historymedren.about.com/library/atlas/blateursedex.htmalmost every map different...and only 50-100 year difference in each
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