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Post by theblackswans on Mar 13, 2008 23:24:40 GMT -5
General Ante Gotovina's defense denies the prosecution argument about the excessive shelling of Knin and forcible expulsion of civilian population. They admit crimes were committed, but not as many as the indictment alleges. The defense notes that civilian authorities assumed responsibility for security in that area on 6 August 1995 while Gotovina returned to his ‘main task’, which was to stop Mladic’s VRS
If there is one person that brought about the end of the VRS and the end of the war in BH, it is General Ante Gotovina, Greg Kehoe and Luka Misectic contend. In their opening statement at the beginning of the trial of the three Croatian generals for crimes against Krajina Serbs, Gotovina’s defense counsel stressed that for General Gotovina, Operation Storm in August 1995 was just ‘a left turn’ from his main task in BH. According to them, his task, in concerted action with the BH Army, was to stop the Bosnian Serb forces, to prevent a massacre similar to Srebrenica from happening in Bihac and to force Karadzic and Mladic to negotiate. On the eve of Operation Storm, Gotovina commanded the attacks on Glamoc and Grahovo, his defense stated, and immediately after the liberation of Krajina, Gotovina returned to Bosnia where he was in charge of operations Maestral and Juzni Potez which led to the Dayton peace talks.
In their response to the opening statement the prosecution presented yesterday, the defense today denied the allegation that Knin was subjected to ‘excessive shelling’, aimed at creating panic among the civilians to make them flee. According to Gotovina’s defense counsels, such instigation was not needed because the authorities in Knin had prepared and rehearsed plans for the evacuation of the population. To demonstrate this, the defense showed a recording of an evacuation drill from July 1995. The defense also mentioned statements by former RSK officials who talk about Martic’s order of 4 August 1995 calling for the evacuation of ‘all inhabitants unable to fight’. Also, the defense showed TV Banja Luka footage of Savo Strbac saying on 7 August 1995 that ‘it has been decided to go into exodus…so that the biological mass of Serbian nation would be preserved for what is to come’.
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Post by theblackswans on Mar 13, 2008 23:33:37 GMT -5
You see the Serbs cleansed themselves, they wanted to preserve themselve so they could reinhabit Kosovo... for three years until they ran away from there too. Why are the chetniks and there supporters such cowards? Why didn't they even stay and fight when the HV attacked in 1995? It was the same thing in BiH when the 5th Korpus and HVO went on the offensive around Sanski Most etc. It is funny that the serbs in the RS keep pushing this idea of independance, they have too soon forgot the war. 1992 they took control of much territory because they weren't opposed by really any organized army, only civillains. 1993 they reaped the benifits of the Armija BiH/HVO war. 1994 they started to lose territory. 1995 they were collapsing upon themselves and the few victories were against demilitarized isolated enclaves of woman and children. The VRS was doomed to lose if the war went on, they had enjoyed little sucess since 1992 when they fought woman and children and killed innocent people, after that because of desertions and cowardice they enjoyed few victories in BiH. It is funny how weak the RS is and yet they act like they are dealing from a position of strength! If they keep it up they will be riding wagons and digging up there corpses to move to whats left of serbia.
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Post by radovic on Mar 13, 2008 23:38:48 GMT -5
^ Conspiracy theorist. Drills are common in time of war. Most government have evacuation plans and carry out drills about them. The U.S. was doing them in the 1950s.
If they were to be sent to colonize Kosovo, then how come less then 4% of refugees in Serbia actually went to Kosovo.
People have already talked of RS falling in 95. So there's no point in mentioning further.
But the case of RSK. What do you expect when it's a territoy that hed such a low population density and Croatia attacked during starm with a troop to civilian ration of 1:1 to 1:2.
And then when you talk of your RS analogy you seem to conveniently forget to mention that in 1995 the major loses by RS occured when your side relied on NATO help.
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Post by theblackswans on Mar 14, 2008 8:45:25 GMT -5
^ Conspiracy theorist. Drills are common in time of war. Most government have evacuation plans and carry out drills about them. The U.S. was doing them in the 1950s. If they were to be sent to colonize Kosovo, then how come less then 4% of refugees in Serbia actually went to Kosovo. People have already talked of RS falling in 95. So there's no point in mentioning further. But the case of RSK. What do you expect when it's a territoy that hed such a low population density and Croatia attacked during starm with a troop to civilian ration of 1:1 to 1:2. And then when you talk of your RS analogy you seem to conveniently forget to mention that in 1995 the major loses by RS occured when your side relied on NATO help. Yes America often had drills about abandoning America and moving to Canada in the 1950's.... Hmm I don't think that is correct. Nice excuse for the cowardice though. The reason why so few colonized Kosovo is it is such a backwater garbage dump, who in there right minds would want to populate Kosovo? That is why so few serbs are left there, refugees from the wars were forced there during the wars but often refused. RS would have fallen if the war continued there is no doubt, Banja Luka was preparing for evacuations as well when the HV/HVO Armija BiH came within Artillery range in 1995. It was the US that saved you by threatning airstrikes against the Armija BiH. Military Historians who have reviewed the events note that after 1992 serbs started to lose the war, it was the superiority of Armour and Artillery that preserved some of your gains until 1995. Rasim Delic reorganized the Armija BiH into a real Armija and the attrition they inflicted on the Serbs prevented the sustainabilty of the gains of 1992. The war was lost for the Serbs when they didn't finish the job in 1992 when they had the chance, killing woman and children and undefended towns and villages. If you can't win a war against innocent how do you expect to win it against a army? The airstrikes by Nato were actually minor, targeting only communications lines and ammunition dumps. Very little hardware and avoiding baracks etc. It just evened one aspect of the war supply and communication lines. It was more phsycological pressure that NATO was serious for once.
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Post by radovic on Mar 14, 2008 9:55:29 GMT -5
Yes they did. America had drills rto evacuate the population from the cities to the country side in case of a war with the Soviet Union.
Actually, refugees were not forced there. If they were then their would be more then 4% in Kosovo. Especially if the Serbian government had a policy to colonize it as you claim.
Your claims are speculative. Let's see when your side actually started having gains the border between Serbia and RS was fully closed off and America was helping you.
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Mar 14, 2008 22:40:33 GMT -5
Savo Strbac saying on 7 August 1995 that ‘it has been decided to go into exodus…so that the biological mass of Serbian nation would be preserved for what is to come’.
I was shocked then pleasantly suprised when i saw the evidence being presented to the court in reference to Savo Strbac ... i wonder what his reaction would have been like? I guess he wasnt expecting this to come to light. Neka Neka.
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Post by zgembo on Mar 15, 2008 9:45:39 GMT -5
People fled out of fear before the Croats could get to them... that is still ethnic cleansing, you don't have to put a gun to everyone's head
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
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Post by CiKoLa on Mar 15, 2008 20:22:38 GMT -5
The serbs planned the evacuation of their own population prior to the commencement of Operation Storm. They were hardly forced to leave. And if anyone was responsible for their removal, it was their own leadership and politics based upon the notion of perserving the biological mass of the serbian nation as Strbac was quoted as saying.
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Post by theblackswans on Mar 16, 2008 9:04:43 GMT -5
Gotovina I believe will be found inncoent like most of the Bosnian leadership brought up on trial. How many serb civillains were killed 100-150? That doesn't sound like ethnic cleansing when you are talking about the entire Krajina and RSK. Serbs were fleeing at the first signs of attach and didn't even put up a resistance in most parts (there were a few exeptions). This is a political show trial to appease the serbs who think all are equal in guilt, the international community tries to act like Tito sometimes and wants to pacify all. Gotovina was supported and given US satalite images from the CIA and was encourage to end this insurrection against Croatia. They realized it would releave pressure on the Armija BiH and the Bosnian government while at the same time rewarding Croatia for there cooperation. serbs who think there policies of the 1990's were correct are misguided, ignorant or evil. Actually the interesting part of all these war crimes trials are the stories of serbs who didn't support genocide & murder in the rs ended up with the same fate of the Croats and Bosnians. Nice policy for a creation that wants to be seen as legitimate.
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Post by zgembo on Mar 17, 2008 0:56:50 GMT -5
Yes, only 100-150 Serbian civilians died, but how many had stayed in the first place? No more than a thousand anyway. The civilians that were killed were mostly old grandmothers, people who were too infirm to actually run away. How do you think young Serbian men or Serbian women would've faired? I'd bet you anything they'd either be killed (on suspicion of fighting for RSK) or raped (by vengeful Croat soldiers). If you can torture a grandmother to death, what will you do to a person in their 20s or 30s? Croatian forces burned down something like 90% of Serbian houses after conquering them. If that doesn't say "we don't want you here" (i.e. ethnic cleansing), what does?
So, yeah, Serbs wanted to preserve the Serbian nation by fleeing, they were all afraid of being killed. And it's not like they were settled in areas that could've used a Serbian presence (like eastern Bosnia or Kosovo). The vast majority went to Banja Luka and Belgrade.
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Post by theblackswans on Mar 17, 2008 18:17:56 GMT -5
Yes, only 100-150 Serbian civilians died, but how many had stayed in the first place? No more than a thousand anyway. The civilians that were killed were mostly old grandmothers, people who were too infirm to actually run away. How do you think young Serbian men or Serbian women would've faired? I'd bet you anything they'd either be killed (on suspicion of fighting for RSK) or raped (by vengeful Croat soldiers). If you can torture a grandmother to death, what will you do to a person in their 20s or 30s? Croatian forces burned down something like 90% of Serbian houses after conquering them. If that doesn't say "we don't want you here" (i.e. ethnic cleansing), what does? So, yeah, Serbs wanted to preserve the Serbian nation by fleeing, they were all afraid of being killed. And it's not like they were settled in areas that could've used a Serbian presence (like eastern Bosnia or Kosovo). The vast majority went to Banja Luka and Belgrade. There was no need to "preserve the serbian nation" Serbs as a nationality were never threatened by others in the 1990's like they did to others. You cetniks are like pedophiles who worry about others molesting you, when you are the only threat. Your arguments are weak, the only thing serbs had to fear was that the Croats wanted revenge for what you did to them in 1991. It is ironic you feared revenge for the crimes you committed in the first place, you reap what you sow!
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Post by zgembo on Mar 17, 2008 20:33:41 GMT -5
Yeah, you do reap what you sow. At the beginning of the war, Serbs wanted to avenge what Croats and Muslims did in WW2. They feared that, pretty damn ironic that they would.
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CiKoLa
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Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Mar 17, 2008 20:39:49 GMT -5
^^ typical serb propaganda justifying their crimes and acts of Genocide ...
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Post by theblackswans on Mar 18, 2008 16:47:23 GMT -5
Yeah, you do reap what you sow. At the beginning of the war, Serbs wanted to avenge what Croats and Muslims did in WW2. They feared that, pretty d*mn ironic that they would. Next time it will be your turn again then, the funny thing is your just a punk from Canada who will sit on the sidelines talking sh*t but doing nothing about it. There is no loved lost for the serbs in rs and what will happen if they don't wake up to reality and see that there future is either in BiH or in the grave. Or crying as they take there wagon and sheep as they flee to some dirthole town in Serbia.
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