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Post by Arxileas on Oct 18, 2008 20:25:16 GMT -5
Melty. You missed the point again as always. My arguments have to do with your people and whole country regarding the Northern Epirus issue "their plight of human rights denied", not with your brothers the Turks or your masters the Yanks protecting you, human rights is an international thing on any sovereign country regardless who's behind them protecting them. As far as concerns yourself, I just have to say that either you don't have a clue about these delicate matters or you just post all these things purposely while you might be aware of truth. The region will not condone undemocratic and barbaric countries around it, time will tell either you conform to the region or not to survive as a nation.
It's 2008 not the 17th century.
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 18, 2008 20:33:19 GMT -5
Albania will survive as a nation just fine, and EU couldnt care less about insignificant dying minorities. As I said, EU has certainly allowed for nations to get away with unjust acts against their minorities so long as they generally put up with EU policy. Here is the lowdown:
- EU has NEVER made any statement regarding Albania's Greek minority (contrary to what Epirotic societies have claimed at various times, there is no real recorded statement outside of formalities) - Albania has allowed schooling and general rights for the population, plus road signs are available in Greek in the regions acknowledged as minority zones (Himara is not and will not be recognized as a minority zone and EU has never made any statement regarding any necessity to do so) - America has NEVER made any statement regarding the minorities in Albania.
So far Albania has been under NO pressure from any group to do as they want. We have signed everything EU has asked and we are moving along fine. The Greek minority, then, seems to have largely been ignored (a very common thing among the EU: to ignore for the sake of stability). So long as Albania's markets are open to the EU, so long as we move in the direction of their stabilization program, they couldnt care less whether the Greek minority survives.
- Greece does not, and here is where Turks come in, have any real ability to overly pressure Albania since its eastern neighbor has shown itself entirely supportive of Albania.
As far as the world is concerned, exempting some minor Greek groups, Albania is moving along fine. IN FACT, France is planning to build a resort in Albania that would strip a number of minority members(Greeks) of the land they claim. This is WITH EU support. undoubtedly Greek is aware of all this, yet it has said nothing. Why? It has long since accepted the death of Albania's minority in the long-term it seems. They dont seem to be a strategically important group considering how eager they are to leave Albania and move to Greece anyway.
Get it? Yours not winning...
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 18, 2008 20:38:39 GMT -5
EU is by nature non-confrontational regarding these issues, it doesnt want to flare up controversy. Your acting too idealistic about this EU, its main concern is its necessity to make itself a world power, not to spread democracy...
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Post by Arxileas on Oct 19, 2008 4:47:38 GMT -5
Albania will survive as a nation just fine, and EU couldnt care less about insignificant dying minorities. As I said, EU has certainly allowed for nations to get away with unjust acts against their minorities so long as they generally put up with EU policy. Here is the lowdown:
- EU has NEVER made any statement regarding Albania's Greek minority (contrary to what Epirotic societies have claimed at various times, there is no real recorded statement outside of formalities) - Albania has allowed schooling and general rights for the population, plus road signs are available in Greek in the regions acknowledged as minority zones (Himara is not and will not be recognized as a minority zone and EU has never made any statement regarding any necessity to do so) - America has NEVER made any statement regarding the minorities in Albania.
So far Albania has been under NO pressure from any group to do as they want. We have signed everything EU has asked and we are moving along fine. The Greek minority, then, seems to have largely been ignored (a very common thing among the EU: to ignore for the sake of stability). So long as Albania's markets are open to the EU, so long as we move in the direction of their stabilization program, they couldnt care less whether the Greek minority survives.
- Greece does not, and here is where Turks come in, have any real ability to overly pressure Albania since its eastern neighbor has shown itself entirely supportive of Albania.
As far as the world is concerned, exempting some minor Greek groups, Albania is moving along fine. IN FACT, France is planning to build a resort in Albania that would strip a number of minority members(Greeks) of the land they claim. This is WITH EU support. undoubtedly Greek is aware of all this, yet it has said nothing. Why? It has long since accepted the death of Albania's minority in the long-term it seems. They dont seem to be a strategically important group considering how eager they are to leave Albania and move to Greece anyway.
Get it? Yours not winning... EU is by nature non-confrontational regarding these issues, it doesnt want to flare up controversy. Your acting too idealistic about this EU, its main concern is its necessity to make itself a world power, not to spread democracy... I concur, you're right. I am not going to argue with you. Requirements for E.UCan't wait for Albania to join us, you'll love it .
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 19, 2008 12:10:07 GMT -5
Figure if we dont get in for another 15-20 years it will mean that most minorities in the country will be gone...
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Oct 19, 2008 18:29:12 GMT -5
^^^ Why do you worry so much about a the 3% Greek minority in Albania? Why do they need to be gone? After all you have said that they are very unimportant if I recall correctly. Also what you would like to see happen to Greeks constitutes a cultural genocide. What you believe will happen contains all the prime ingredients for a huge disaster between Greece and Albania. If the relationship between Greece and Albania is spoiled what do you think will happen to all the Albanians in Greece? What do you think will happen to all of the Greeks in Albania? There will most likely be a war. You talk so poorly of the E.U... that if anything happened to either countries minorities it would be a major crisis not devoid of Nato or E.U intervention. In my opinion you will do whatever the E.U says to do. With your standing in the world Toskaliku you would definitely be the loser. America will not come to your aid against Greece nor will Turkey. Turkey and the U.S relationship with Greece and other E.U countries is way too advantageous to stir up the crap pot over such an unimportant place as Southern Albania or North Epirus. The status quo will remain and whoever disturbs the status quo will get bombed to the stone age just the way Serbia did.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Oct 19, 2008 18:35:51 GMT -5
Toskaliku,
You said the Greek minority is unimportant?
What you seem to be forgetting is that ALBANIA IS AN UNIMPORTANT PLACE AND COUNTRY. THE GREEKS THAT LIVE THERE ARE UNIMPORTANT TO THE WORLD, BUT ONLY BECAUSE THEY RESIDE IN ALBANIAS BORDERS. They are an entrepreneurial, hardworking, intelligent, group of people with a rich cultural heritage. They are living in a dark age under the Albanian government and will remain in a dark age as long as this arrangement remains.
Many of the Greeks of Albania leave for other countries to make a better life for themselves... just the same way many Albanians do. Albania sucks in general and there is no difference in how Albanians or Greeks generally feel about their living situations. Last and final thought... Albania sucks... who would want to live there?
Can you name five things that Albania has to offer the world or its people?
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Post by adolfmussolini on Oct 19, 2008 19:00:49 GMT -5
^^^ Why do you worry so much about a the 3% Greek minority in Albania? Why do they need to be gone? After all you have said that they are very unimportant if I recall correctly. Also what you would like to see happen to Greeks constitutes a cultural genocide. What you believe will happen contains all the prime ingredients for a huge disaster between Greece and Albania. If the relationship between Greece and Albania is spoiled what do you think will happen to all the Albanians in Greece? What do you think will happen to all of the Greeks in Albania? There will most likely be a war. You talk so poorly of the E.U... that if anything happened to either countries minorities it would be a major crisis not devoid of Nato or E.U intervention. In my opinion you will do whatever the E.U says to do. With your standing in the world Toskaliku you would definitely be the loser. America will not come to your aid against Greece nor will Turkey. Turkey and the U.S relationship with Greece and other E.U countries is way too advantageous to stir up the crap pot over such an unimportant place as Southern Albania or North Epirus. The status quo will remain and whoever disturbs the status quo will get bombed to the stone age just the way Serbia did. South Albania is not unimportant, we have the best music I hate extremesits on both sides they just want to stir up trouble where there mostly is none I just wonder why this politicians picked Himara as their battleground? Why not Dropulli, they're the purest Greeks in Albania...
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 19, 2008 19:05:33 GMT -5
Both are NATO members now, America will not allow such a thing, nor will EU tolerate it plus, as I said, we do have reliable allies to the east of Greece... there will be no physical war, just a diplomatics relation failure followed by Greek retaliation through Albania's economic dependence on it. As I said, if Albania can simply hold through the brunt of it, then we can in the end get the EU or America to intervene in order to prevent the breakdown of Balkan stabilization. Turkey has in the past intervened for Albania and it certainly wouldnt promote a Greek victory in this area. Albania will probably head back 10 years of more economically but with a greater sense of animosity towards the people in the south of it(I.E. Greece) I dont worry over minorities, I want Albanians to get their longed for revenge by doing to the Greeks in Albania what Greeks did to the Albanians in Greece 60 years ago. Its a wish to see Albanians finally get even after being mistreated for a long time. Its not something too much to ask for and not something Im unique in. A number of Albanians in the forum, specifically those from the south, have expressed a similar desire through anger towards the hypocrisy that Albania has to deal with today. The minority itself is dying through lack of birthrates and emigration, however I think that is far too lenient for them. Thats like dying in sleep... Im not like those who believe Serbia was bombed purely over its treatment of Albanians.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Oct 19, 2008 20:18:49 GMT -5
^^^ All is fair in love and war. You live by the sword you die by the sword. Good luck.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Oct 20, 2008 4:58:24 GMT -5
To
I want that the Greek Epirotes in Albania, to have the rights and their Independence territory.
Greek people in zones known officially by Tirana, Albanian authorities represent only Greek Minorities in Argjirokastro, Agjioi Saranda, and Koritsa when there are other regions such as Himara 90% Narta, Avlona Vouliarates,Droupoli etc...are Ethnic Greeks and and other big cities of Albania which Tirana does not recognize the Greek communities.
Greeks of Albania a large community who lives in southern Albania known as Northern Epirus Region, continue to have not the rights to have their police represents and other institutions inside Albanian authorities including the Greek official language. Particularly the “Protocol of Corfu”, an agreement of 1914 obliges Albanian State to know the Autonomy inhabited by large percentage of Greek population in this region. The agreement firmed also by Great Powers obliges Albanian State to respect the international agreements based to the human rights values.
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