Post by Toskaliku on Jun 13, 2008 3:31:34 GMT -5
Let start one thing off with, a pro-Greek biography of Venizelos by Paschalis M. Kitromilides, Eleftherios Venizelos: The Trials of Statesmanship, writes that: ...he [Venizelos] claimed almost the whole of Northern Epirus with its mixed population of Greeks and Albanians, of whom the majority spoke Albanian pp. 158
The basis of Venizelos' arguement was that Greece "deserved" the land because it was more "civilized".
Secondly, I would recommend our mentally challenged friend look at this particular book: www.amazon.co.uk/Badlands-Borderlands-History-Southern-Northern/dp/0715632019/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213332931&sr=1-2
Anyone still have the link to the ethnographic maps I posted a long while back in the old forum? Anyway, I cant find it for now so Ill repost some of the stuff. Ill have to destroy our little mechanic again:
One German map: home.arcor.de/macedonian/Ethnic_Maps/dr_map_25.jpg
Take a good note, a lot of the Albanians from the deeper side of Epirus were expelled and in turn settled in southern Albania, this map would have looked far more in favor of Albanians in the post WWII period.
But this is pretty generous to the Greek side so far.
Another German: home.arcor.de/macedonian/Ethnic_Maps/dr_map_27.jpg
What I said before applies here as well.
Another German map:
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Andree64-1.jpg
This one shows a more pure southern Albania. What I said above applies as well.
American made contemporary map of the ethnographics then:
www.uoregon.edu/~kimball/images/frn.MPR.1912-1913.BAL.wrx~Anchor120.jpg
Another German map:
www.historyofmacedonia.org/MacedonianGreekConflict/images/map_german.jpg
I havnt done the British yet. But as you can see, many maps say different things. Trying to figure out definites at that time was difficult. However, consistently, Albs are the majority there.
Now to move on to different issues:
1. There will be no autonomy to any region of southern Albania, not today, not ever. EU is against it, so Greece will shut up. Besides just the EU Albania's back is protected by Turkey, who has vowed support in the past. As it stands, there will be no such thing as autonomy.
2. Corfu protocol was signed under duress. By duress I mean that Greece and Serbia occupied parts of Albania after WWI and forced these treaties. At the time we didnt even have a proper ruler.
3. Lots of Treaties are signed and never kept, look at Israel. Treaties are treaties, America signed dozens and dozens with the natives and almost none were kept. So they are not worth much besides just solving a temporary problem.
4. Hypocricy on the Greek side is AMAZING and revealing of a people with absolutely no heart. After WWI, Greece needed to make sure southern Albania was populated heavily by Greeks so it let loose armed insurgents in the region to ethnically cleanse non-Christians and to forcefully Hellenize the Christians(See the Papa Ballamaci story, where a priest was hung and shot to death for not accepting this). Afterwards it cleansed all Albanians from Greece, who settled and then pretty much secured Albania's hold in the south and then has the nerve to say we are the ones being unfair. I say to the Greeks: Be lucky that the Greek minority is actually able to flee and settle in Athens today, by all intents and purposes, they shouldnt even have legs...
The basis of Venizelos' arguement was that Greece "deserved" the land because it was more "civilized".
Secondly, I would recommend our mentally challenged friend look at this particular book: www.amazon.co.uk/Badlands-Borderlands-History-Southern-Northern/dp/0715632019/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213332931&sr=1-2
Anyone still have the link to the ethnographic maps I posted a long while back in the old forum? Anyway, I cant find it for now so Ill repost some of the stuff. Ill have to destroy our little mechanic again:
One German map: home.arcor.de/macedonian/Ethnic_Maps/dr_map_25.jpg
Take a good note, a lot of the Albanians from the deeper side of Epirus were expelled and in turn settled in southern Albania, this map would have looked far more in favor of Albanians in the post WWII period.
But this is pretty generous to the Greek side so far.
Another German: home.arcor.de/macedonian/Ethnic_Maps/dr_map_27.jpg
What I said before applies here as well.
Another German map:
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/56/Andree64-1.jpg
This one shows a more pure southern Albania. What I said above applies as well.
American made contemporary map of the ethnographics then:
www.uoregon.edu/~kimball/images/frn.MPR.1912-1913.BAL.wrx~Anchor120.jpg
Another German map:
www.historyofmacedonia.org/MacedonianGreekConflict/images/map_german.jpg
I havnt done the British yet. But as you can see, many maps say different things. Trying to figure out definites at that time was difficult. However, consistently, Albs are the majority there.
Now to move on to different issues:
1. There will be no autonomy to any region of southern Albania, not today, not ever. EU is against it, so Greece will shut up. Besides just the EU Albania's back is protected by Turkey, who has vowed support in the past. As it stands, there will be no such thing as autonomy.
2. Corfu protocol was signed under duress. By duress I mean that Greece and Serbia occupied parts of Albania after WWI and forced these treaties. At the time we didnt even have a proper ruler.
3. Lots of Treaties are signed and never kept, look at Israel. Treaties are treaties, America signed dozens and dozens with the natives and almost none were kept. So they are not worth much besides just solving a temporary problem.
4. Hypocricy on the Greek side is AMAZING and revealing of a people with absolutely no heart. After WWI, Greece needed to make sure southern Albania was populated heavily by Greeks so it let loose armed insurgents in the region to ethnically cleanse non-Christians and to forcefully Hellenize the Christians(See the Papa Ballamaci story, where a priest was hung and shot to death for not accepting this). Afterwards it cleansed all Albanians from Greece, who settled and then pretty much secured Albania's hold in the south and then has the nerve to say we are the ones being unfair. I say to the Greeks: Be lucky that the Greek minority is actually able to flee and settle in Athens today, by all intents and purposes, they shouldnt even have legs...