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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 6, 2008 5:59:45 GMT -5
^ Ah what the hell, l'll tell ya There is evidence that amoung the Slavs who were transferred to Asia Minor there were some who called themselves Serbs. In 649 (i.e, at a time when, even according to Porphyrogenitus, the resettlemet of serbs in areas outside Macedonia had been completed) the Emperor Constantine 3 transferred a part of the Slavs from Vardar to Asia Minor. There these migrants founded the city of Gordoservion, the name of which gives grounds for supposing that amoung its founders were Serbs. From the seventh to the tenth century, there were five such transfers of population. Between 1118 and 1143, the Emperor John Comnenus resettled some of the Serbs in the region of Nicomedia.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 6, 2008 9:25:49 GMT -5
Hmmmmmm, judging from the fast music Pontians, (from Nikomedia and staff) and Serbs made a compatible war-like combination. Not to mention the use of "lyra", the violin-like musical instrument.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Apr 6, 2008 9:58:42 GMT -5
The fyrom Slavs were always Bulgarian. Just look how the fyrom think Bulgarian king Samuel was "Macedonian" while the Serbian ruler Marko is just serb.
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niquetamere
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Ancient Bosnian Serbatron
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Post by niquetamere on Apr 6, 2008 13:18:03 GMT -5
edit-----
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Post by Edlund on Apr 6, 2008 15:57:00 GMT -5
Novi Pazar has written lots of buls**t, I can't respond to everything. Basicly his idea is, that in Macedonia there were Serbs, who later became Bulgarians because they were forced by the Bulgarian Exarchate.
The Bulgarian Exarchate was established in 1870. In 1878 northern Bulgaria was liberated and the Ottoman regime viewed the remaining Bulgarians as enemies. I can give you facts about that, but I don't see you giving facts, when you say that the Ottomans viewed the Serbs as "rebellious conspirator". There were almost no Serbs left in the Ottoman empire after 1878. So after 1878 the Ottoman regime didn't prefer the "submissive" Bulgarians over the "rebellious" Serbs (the designations are hillarious by the way).
So you say that in a period of 8 years the Serbs in Macedonia became Bulgarians. I think that this is an offence to the loyalty of the Serbians, but it's your own opinion.
However, all this means, that in 1944, when the Macedonian nation and language was created, the people, who became the Macedonians, were previously known as Bulgarians. The people, who had some Serbian ancestors, in 1944 had long forgotten their roots and were Bulgarians. Do you agree?
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Post by Edlund on Apr 6, 2008 16:00:55 GMT -5
Ostrovo is populated by Muslims today, I think it was so during WWI too. These are only statements by some Serbians, about some Bulgarian Muslims, who were communicating with Slovenes. It is not a linguistical proof. Do you know if there is a publication about this? I've never heard such thing.
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Post by Edlund on Apr 6, 2008 16:05:55 GMT -5
Why would Czar Dusan do that if he didn't think Macedonians were Serbs and that he was save in Skopje? Stefan Dushan was 3/4 Bulgarian. He was the eldest son of Stefan Uroš III Deèanski and Theodora of Bulgaria, the daughter of emperor Smilets of Bulgaria. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Uro%C5%A1_IV_Du%C5%A1an_of_SerbiaStefan Uroš III Deèanski was the son of King Stefan Uroš II and Anna of Bulgaria en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_DecanskiAnd as Pagane pointed out, Belgrade was part of the Bulgarian empire longer than Skopje was part of the Serbian empire.
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Post by Edlund on Apr 6, 2008 16:33:31 GMT -5
I consider FYROMans to be Bulgarian slavs with Serb influence in them. This is the right answer.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Apr 6, 2008 16:47:28 GMT -5
Pyrros - Montenegrins actually say "Varenika" for Milk Kazu i Srbi iz Like isto varenika. Pa sta?
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 6, 2008 18:16:10 GMT -5
Stefan Dushan was 3/4 Bulgarian. He was the eldest son of Stefan Uroš III Deèanski and Theodora of Bulgaria, the daughter of emperor Smilets of Bulgaria. So why was he the "Emperor of the Serbs and the Greeks" instead of "Emperor of the Serbs and the Bulgarians" if he believed himself to be Bulgarian? And as Pagane pointed out, Belgrade was part of the Bulgarian empire longer than Skopje was part of the Serbian empire. Did Bulgaria turn Belgrade into their capital? Did they consider Serbs to be Bulgarians? If either answer is no then this is not the same situation.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 6, 2008 18:37:50 GMT -5
"Basicly his idea is, that in Macedonia there were Serbs, who later became Bulgarians because they were forced by the Bulgarian Exarchate."
No, l'm not trying to say that at all, l'm pointing out how the serbian component of this Bulgaro/Serbo mix lost its identity.
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Post by Edlund on Apr 6, 2008 20:11:47 GMT -5
So why was he the "Emperor of the Serbs and the Greeks" instead of "Emperor of the Serbs and the Bulgarians" if he believed himself to be Bulgarian? He was of mixed origin so I don't know what he believed himself to be and neither do you. He took a Bulgarian wife, just like his father and grandfather. In three of the copies of his codex he is called "ruler of Bulgarians" among others. And if we look at the titles - the Bulgarian kings who ruled over Belgrade never called themselves "Emperor of Bulgarians and Serbs" or something like that. What are your sources that Stephan Dushan or some other Serbs of his time considered the Bulgarians from Macedonia to be Serbs?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 6, 2008 20:40:08 GMT -5
"Not only a biased article, a very stupid one as well."
Thats fine, not everybody is going to see eye to eye on everything l may quote. In all honesty, you need to tell Filov, Radoslavoff, Mintschev this, they are the ones who said this not me.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Apr 6, 2008 20:45:21 GMT -5
"Hmmmmmm, judging from the fast music Pontians, (from Nikomedia and staff) and Serbs made a compatible war-like combination. Not to mention the use of "lyra", the violin-like musical instrument." I'm not sure about that Pyrro hehe. I think the Pontian music has always been original
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 6, 2008 20:47:25 GMT -5
He was of mixed origin so I don't know what he believed himself to be and neither do you. He took a Bulgarian wife, just like his father and grandfather. In three of the copies of his codex he is called "ruler of Bulgarians" among others. And if we look at the titles - the Bulgarian kings who ruled over Belgrade never called themselves "Emperor of Bulgarians and Serbs" or something like that. I am sure you can give me a source where he declares himself "King of the Bulgarians". What are your sources that Stephan Dushan or some other Serbs of his time considered the Bulgarians from Macedonia to be Serbs? Why would he declare Skopje the capital if he didn't believe Skopje was a Serb city?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 7, 2008 4:15:55 GMT -5
Novi, i forgot to tell you one of my stories. One buddy of mine got married in Thesaloniki (solun) a woman of half slav origin from Aridaia. She told me that her Dad understood the Bulgarian tourists (in Halkidiki) better than the Skopians (from Skoplje)!! Her brother had an affair with a Polish lady, and she said that she could understand better the Polish lang than the one spoken by Skopians. I had my wife there busy running with the kids, so we couldn't do a proper "experiment" (am i watching too much "Lost" lately lol), comparing Serb language and Greek slavomak language.
Sometimes i wander how nice it would be if we all traveled and draw our own conclusions, having open minds and a positive spirit.
It also strikes me, that sometimes "official" studies lack the originality and quality of informal observations made by amateurs.
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Post by Edlund on Apr 7, 2008 4:21:08 GMT -5
What are your sources that Stephan Dushan or some other Serbs of his time considered the Bulgarians from Macedonia to be Serbs? Why would he declare Skopje the capital if he didn't believe Skopje was a Serb city? This doesn't prove anything. On May 29, 1453, Sultan Mehmed II "the Conqueror" captured Constantinople after a 53–day siege and proclaimed that the city was now the new capital of his Ottoman Empire. So he believed that Constantinople was a Turkish city, didn't he?
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Post by Kubrat on Apr 7, 2008 4:21:16 GMT -5
sweetheart, do you know why belgrade is called belgrade?
it's cause the walls around medivel belgrade were white, and were built by Bulgarians.
you should thank the croats, its tomislav that saved you.
because he could never be the ruler of bulgars.simply put. interesting how his son wa 7/8ths Bulgarian.
edit: btw, i forgot to add, that Belgrade has belonged to Bulgaria longer than it has to serbia in history.
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Post by Edlund on Apr 7, 2008 4:33:28 GMT -5
She told me that her Dad understood the Bulgarian tourists (in Halkidiki) better than the Skopians (from Skoplje)!! The official Macedonian language has been twisted in many ways, the goal was to become a separated language. It is not the language that the people of the Vardar region spoke before 1944. Besides that, the Bulgarian dialect of the Aegean Macedonians was always closer to official Bulgarian than to the Bulgarian dialects of the Vardar region. This observation was made also by the Serb Stefan Verkovic in 1860: He says that " The Bulgarian dialects to the north of Macedonia, and especially in old Serbia, around Vranje, Kumanovo, Dupnica, are much closer to the Serbian language, than this south-Macedonian dialect". He was collecting Bulgarian songs mainly from the Serres region. By the way, he considered Vranje a Bulgarian city, just like all his contemporaries. Think about it, Highduke
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Apr 7, 2008 4:34:51 GMT -5
Kubrat, stop being hostile. You obviously have some clues. State them in a polite manner. Using "stopwords" such as "sweetheart" destroy the whole recipe, you know.
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