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Post by chalkedon on Jun 25, 2008 7:59:08 GMT -5
To continue w/ Ioan and Pyrrhos comments of slavic toponyms...It reminded me to ask you guys something... I just got back from Pelio...i visited Makrinitsa and Aghios Ioannis beach. It was fantastic ! There was a slavic names for some villages...One of them was called Tsagarada which in slavic means beautiful view...at least thats what our tour guide said And I can tell you first hand it was a great view...you couldnt tell where the sky and sea met. It looked like one huge blue void into nothingness....it was sick.. So...my question is..was the tour guide talking out of her arse ? Is " Tsagarada " really a slavic toponym that means " beautiful view " ? Anyone know ?
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 25, 2008 8:04:32 GMT -5
He was talking out of his ass. Tsagarada sounds slavic but it doesnt mean beautiful view.Beautiful view is "KRASIVA GLEDKA" or "HUBAVA GLEDKA" Actually it sounds like "Tsari grad" which means town of the ceaser or the town of the king and thats what the Bulgarians, the Russians (and maybe the Serbians-dont know) used to call Constantinopole.
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 25, 2008 8:07:39 GMT -5
thanks Ioan !
i should revise my feeback i left them... ;D
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 25, 2008 8:07:50 GMT -5
I will ask my wife in the evening. The issue is that there are a lot NON slavic toponyms that we take them for slavic in the lack of any other evidence.
Also there is a strange phaenomenon with some words like "kleisoura". Kleisoura was originally a greek-derived word which means ... kleisoura!!! (like when we dont open the windows in our house and it smells).
The slavs took it to mean something like a valley between 2 mountains and gave it back as a toponym.
So kleisoura while being a greek word, has a meaning given by the slavs.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 25, 2008 8:10:32 GMT -5
Ioan, expatriot,
also the word "kotetsi" everyone says it is slavic while it is not!
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 25, 2008 8:12:47 GMT -5
point taken I never thought about it that way... I guess we do have some words that most ppl are not familiar with..I learned smthg today ;D
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 25, 2008 8:19:51 GMT -5
I will ask my wife in the evening. The issue is that there are a lot NON slavic toponyms that we take them for slavic in the lack of any other evidence. Also there is a strange phaenomenon with some words like "kleisoura". Kleisoura was originally a greek-derived word which means ... kleisoura!!! (like when we dont open the windows in our house and it smells). The slavs took it to mean something like a valley between 2 mountains and gave it back as a toponym. So kleisoura while being a greek word, has a meaning given by the slavs. Thats true, "klisura" in Bulgarian means canyon. And I am not surprised its a Greek word. Lots of Bulgarian words come from Greeks, also lots of common personal names come from Greek ones. What I ve read is that Greek influenced Bulgarian language the most in the middle ages (alot more than Turkish for example). But there are archaic Bulgarian words that come from Turkish too, but they are not very used today like chiflik (big house), komshu (neighbour) etc.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 25, 2008 8:23:30 GMT -5
Also lots of people (foregners) think that Kaloyan is typical Bulgarian name. Its very popular name in Bulgaria, because one of our kings was called Kaloyan. But truth is he was called Ioan and the Greeks called him the beautiful ioan, so he was known as Kaloyan.
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 25, 2008 8:25:37 GMT -5
Also lots of people (foregners) think that Kaloyan is typical Bulgarian name. Its very popular name in Bulgaria, because one of our kings was called Kaloyan. But truth is he was called Ioan and the Greeks called him the beautiful ioan, so he was known as Kaloyan. Nice !
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 25, 2008 8:26:49 GMT -5
Ioan, expatriot, also the word "kotetsi" everyone says it is slavic while it is not! kotetsi doesnt sound familiar. It reminds me of the Bulgarian word "kote" which means small cat.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 25, 2008 8:30:42 GMT -5
!!! Tsagarada comes from Tsagaris!! isnt it logical?
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 25, 2008 8:39:15 GMT -5
What does Tsagaris mean? Also since we are on this topic there are alot of Greek toponims in Bulgaria: There is a certain number of Greek names, mostly in southern Bulgaria along the Bulgarian Black Sea Coast, which stem from ancient poleis and towns. Examples: Ahtopol, Sozopol, Nikopol, Provadiya.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 25, 2008 9:13:35 GMT -5
Tsagaris is the shoe repairer... Provadiya does not sound greek like the rest of the cities Anthopol, etc..
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 25, 2008 9:20:09 GMT -5
Its comes from Greek: Historical names of the medieval fortress, the ruins of which have been preserved until today, include Provat (Byzantine Greek), Ovech (Îâå÷, Bulgarian), Provanto (Italian) and Pravadi (Ottoman Turkish). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProvadiyaThe Bulgarian name was Ovech. Of course now the name is Bulgarized.
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